Sara Ferrer: [00:00:00] Welcome to Fearless and Flawed. Today we're joined by Vicky Brown. Vicky is a seasoned HR expert, bestselling author, and accomplished coach. With over 20 years of experience helping entrepreneurs navigate the complexities of business and human resources. As founder of Idomeneo Enterprises and creator of the Leader's Journey Experience, she equips business owners with practical tools and confidence to grow.

Sara Ferrer: A sought after speaker and former opera singer. Hey, Vicky, brings expertise, clarity, and inspiration to every stage. 

Serena Reynolds: In this conversation we'll explore how Vicky transformed her corporate leadership experience into launching her own HR consultancy. What it means to guide entrepreneurs through the [00:01:00] complexities of business and human resources, and how she equips others with the tools and confidence to succeed.

Sara Ferrer: We will also talk about her journey to becoming a bestselling author, the framework she's created to, to support business owners and the lessons she's learned about leadership, resilience, and building businesses with clarity and purpose. 

Serena Reynolds: I'm Serena and I build systems that make leaders impossible to ignore.

Serena Reynolds: Turning podcasts into pipelines and webinars into cache machines. 

Sara Ferrer: And I'm Sara, an email marketing pro here to convert clicks into cache. And together Serena and I are two women in charge, digging into the fearless, the flawed, and the fabulous journeys of female founders who are rewriting the rules everywhere.

Serena Reynolds: So let's dive in. Welcome to our show, Vicky. 

Vicky Brown: Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be here. Looking forward to our discussion. 

Serena Reynolds: So Vicky, you've had, um, such a dynamic journey so far from corporate leader to [00:02:00] entrepreneur, author, and even opera singer. Very cool. Can you take us back to the moment you realized it was time to leave the corporate world and start building something of your aim?

Vicky Brown: Well, it wasn't my idea, I'll say that. So I had spent many years on the corporate side, as you know, an HR officer in various companies, mostly entertainment, a little bit of advertising in there as well. And ultimately ended up at a technology financial services company. That was around the early 2000, like very early two thousands actually.

Vicky Brown: So 98, 99, 2000. And unfortunately around that time there was a technology bubble. It bursts around 2001. So we had to close that company and the president of that company came to me and said, you know, you built HR in a way that I haven't seen before. I gave you no money. You did it with a staff of one yourself.

Vicky Brown: And we, at the time, we went from, I think [00:03:00] I was employee number, I don't know, 12 or something. And we ultimately ended up with more than 300 employees. So. He said, you know, this is impressive and I think you should provide this as a service to other small businesses. And I was so flattered and bowled over and I said, thank you very much.

Vicky Brown: I'm absolutely not doing that. I'm going to go get a job. And that was a great idea. But no, and the reason I didn't think it was a good idea is because, you know, I told him, I said. I'm a great number two, I'm kind of the CEO whisperer. I sit on their shoulder, I'm their confidant. I, you know, remind them of things.

Vicky Brown: Did you think about the impact of this program or did you think about doing that? Or How are you feeling today? What's going on? So that was my role, and I was a really great number two. I loved doing that, and it never even occurred to me to have my own company or to be quote unquote number one. So he said, okay.

Vicky Brown: That's fine. And that was in Feb, I think, of [00:04:00] 2001. In April, he reached out again. He had a new gig. He is like, well, and I need some HR support. At least I, you, you taught me that much. Can't afford you need to be an independent contractor. Just work on a couple of projects for me. I've got a New York team now.

Vicky Brown: I was like, okay, that's fine. So I wrote a handbook and you know, kind of set them up for payroll and things like that. And from April of 2001. Through August of 2001, he kept adding things. So then I was, you know, looking for benefits for them. And then I was making sure that they were meeting the h, the employment compliance for various locations, and then he was opening other locations and all this stuff was happening.

Vicky Brown: Finally in August of that year, my compliance gene kicked fully in and I called him and I said, listen, I'm doing a lot of stuff for you. I've got access to a lot of confidential information, you know, that's making my skin crawl. We need a contract, I need insurance, I need a corporate veil. [00:05:00] You need confidentiality agreement.

Vicky Brown: Like all sorts of stuff needs to happen, so I'm gonna incorporate. And he just rubbed his little hands together and laughed and said, yeah, I was wondering when you'd get to that. So that was his evil plan all along. So he kind of pushed me into it and I incorporated the end of 20 2001, and next year we'll be 25.

Sara Ferrer: We've talked to so many women who, and I just think people in general are like, the number one spot is like what you want. You wanna be number one in business. You wanna be the, the, if you're a wife, you wanna be the best wife. If you're an employee, you wanna be the best employee. If you're the, if you enter the hot dog eating contest, you're not looking to be number two.

Sara Ferrer: You're trying to be number in all aspects of life, right? Whatever that role is. I think that's very interesting. Take about, I'm a good number two. I don't have a desire to be the number one. Talk more about that, that number one spot. 

Vicky Brown: Listen, I'm not going to pretend like I'm a shrinking violet. I'm a Leo.

Vicky Brown: [00:06:00] I'm an only child. I'm a lyric soprano. I was. Born this way. So, you know, definitely one, number one in almost all aspects of my life, I assume it is a position that was given to me at birth, but, but in corporate, I definitely, I. I flourished in that role of being the second on the call sheet, if you will, and really partnering with my CEOs and with my executive team.

Vicky Brown: And it's funny because that's actually what we do. That's our business. That's what we do now. So I just get to do it with a lot of different entrepreneurs and a lot of different CEOs, which is great. So. 

Sara Ferrer: That is so fun. And then like when I, when I think about hr and I think the burning questions are like, I'm like, when do I unveil the, like the real raw HR questions, right?

Sara Ferrer: That we're all dying to know. Because for anyone who's like watching this, right, most people are gonna be listening. Like, Vicky just has this energy, she has this [00:07:00] essence. Like, I, if she's gonna fire me, she's gonna fire me with grace. Like you have this aura that, like if I go to HR and you see Vicky and you're like, Vicky's gonna listen.

Sara Ferrer: There's a lot of tough conversations that happen in, in hr. There's a lot of, you know, debate about, you know, not debate. We all know HR is for the company that's that big, that, that, you know, that understanding that, well, you know, they're there for you, but not really. How, in your experience, can you give us some nuggets of like, how does HR become something that we all need, but how does the employee make it work?

Sara Ferrer: For them, knowing that there is that understanding out there that HR is part of the company. So like let's just kind of dive into that because I've always been wondering. You know, how do you navigate that knowing that they're not really on your side or are they 

Serena Reynolds: They're supposed to be, are they not on the employee side?

Serena Reynolds: Yeah, they're, they're the go between, between you and the, 

Vicky Brown: there you go. It's, [00:08:00] it's the go between. So it depends on the person. It depends on their. And my philosophy is very specific. That same president that pushed me in to becoming a CEO, that very same person. I remember when I went in and had my very first interview with him for that role, and he said, you know, how do you approach conflict?

Vicky Brown: Someone comes to you and says, I'm having a challenge. How do you approach that? And I looked him in the eye and I said. If I am going to take a role as the chief HR officer, you have to understand I'm Switzerland. I'm not going to be on your side. I'm not gonna be on the employee side. I'm going to be looking at the best solution for the organization to continue to be successful, and that means the organization needs to recognize that.

Vicky Brown: The biggest talent pool that it has walks in and out of that office door every single day. So you can't just [00:09:00] make decisions and take up actions completely, you know, considering the employees to be irrelevant. They are integral to what's going on. So you have to consider how those human beings are going to feel, respond, react.

Vicky Brown: You have to consider that. On the other hand. The employee also needs to understand that the greater good is the thing that makes sure everybody eats. So while there may be a solution that someone feels is really important for them personally, maybe it's something, maybe it's solution, A solution that actually puts the greater organization in some level of peril or non-compliance or something else.

Vicky Brown: We cannot sacrifice the entire organization. For one person. We also can't sacrifice people for the sake of the organization. So it's a very, very challenging role. And again, this is my philosophy around hr. It's a [00:10:00] very challenging role actually. Instead of everybody feeling like you're on their side, nobody feels like you're on their side, so they dislike you even more.

Vicky Brown: But I think that that's the role that we have. The role we have, is to stay level, stay balanced, and to really look at. Both sides and try to get to solutions that work for everything. And sometimes that means that the employee will get what they feel they really need or they really want. And sometimes that means that the company.

Vicky Brown: It does something that may not feel really great for the employee base, but it's the right thing to do to ensure the ongoing, and when I say success of the company, I mean it needs to continue to exist. It's, you know, it's a capitalist entity. It needs to take in income, have profit so that it can pay salaries and support families.

Vicky Brown: So that's the way I look at it. 

Sara Ferrer: That's been the best, most succinct, most comforting explanation I have heard [00:11:00] to date, because a part of me was like, you're not, they're not for the little guy, but when Vicky's on the team that you are really Switzerland in this case. 

Vicky Brown: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. And if it's a tossup, if the company's going to be okay, and you're, you're, the other thing you have to remember is equity.

Vicky Brown: You can't start treating people differently. You need to be fair as well. So you're not just looking out for the success of the organization and the solution for that particular individual, but you're looking at how it's gonna affect the rest of the team. What does it mean about your organization? What does it say about your culture?

Vicky Brown: What does it say about how you show up? So all of those things have to go into the mix as you're making those decisions. And if it's, if everything's a tossup, then err on the side of the employee. 'cause let's make them happy, shall we? 

Sara Ferrer: I love that. Er, uh, this is so refreshing. Vicky can, who, who, who are you hire Me.

Vicky Brown: You got it. I'm in love with you both. I [00:12:00] totally, totally. Not a problem. 

Sara Ferrer: I'm not currently looking, but hire me because I just resonates. Er, what are your thoughts on the, like, I just felt that was like a warm hug from hr. 

Serena Reynolds: I, I, I've always had good hrs. I, I,

Serena Reynolds: I always do HR is a warm hug. 

Sara Ferrer: And maybe you, it's not that I don't wanna villainize hr, but I, I think especially in big corporations, there is that understanding that hr, at least from my understanding, HR is there to protect the company. And that's just the reality is, and, and again, I don't wanna villainize them, but that, but you're an employee, and again, I'm talking big companies, 40,000 employees, 20,000 where it's like, let's just read the room here.

Sara Ferrer: You know, you gotta make sure that you feel good walking away from it. But I, I think maybe this is young Sara, her first job really understanding that HR was good to me. 'cause I understood the game. The game being that HR needs to [00:13:00] protect you, but they also need to protect someone else. So to go in there and to just be very emotional and to think that everything's about you.

Sara Ferrer: Uhuh, like Vicky had said, there are stakeholders here, there's compliance, there's legalities, there are things that I think sometimes the individual. Doesn't consider, and someone like Vicky would come in. And so now with your business, you come in and do you, do you coach, do you give templates, guidelines?

Sara Ferrer: How does that now kind of for, for, for companies like startups, I'm sure need an HR process. They call you and what happens? 

Vicky Brown: Yeah, so the thing about the organization is we handle what I call administrivia. So we will handle the paperwork and the documentation and the compliance and making sure you have the posters and your sick leave policy is, you know, compliant and all of those things.

Vicky Brown: But a large part of what we do and something that we really, really. You know, as part of our favorite tasks with [00:14:00] clients is that we consult. So we spend a tremendous amount of time consulting with managers and supervisors because we want to expand their ability to lead their teams. So when you are really good at your, at your job making the widget.

Vicky Brown: Show you show a a high level of facility. With that, you get promoted to managing other people who make the widget. That is a different job. That is a different muscle set, that is a different skill set. And when you just take someone who's doing the thing and put them in a position to manage other people who are doing the thing.

Vicky Brown: If you do that without giving them any support or guidance or training or education, you are not setting them up for success. Absolutely. There are a lot of people who have, you know, are born with personalities where they can easily [00:15:00] communicate with other people. They have a really high intuitive sense of other people, and that's great.

Vicky Brown: But even those individuals need support and help and education around having tough conversations or how do you really mentor someone or how do you coach a high performing person? You know, we talk all the time about coaching FI folks who aren't meeting the performance standards, but what if you have a superstar?

Vicky Brown: How do you manage them? How do you coach them? How do you balance their needs with the needs of the rest of your team? How do you manage up? To the folks that you're reporting to. Protect your team, grow your team, get your team what it needs, but also put your team in a good light, in a good position inside the entire organization.

Vicky Brown: So, you know, that's obviously not, I'm not talking about the CEO level, I'm talking a few levels below that, but that's where employees really get their impression of the company. They're getting the yeses and the nos from the company, from their manager the majority of the time. So if the manager doesn't [00:16:00] know how to deliver that message or doesn't have a good sense of empathy and communication with their team members, then those team members are gonna have a negative impression of the company.

Vicky Brown: It doesn't matter what senior management is doing, it's like, oh yeah, well, senior management says this and they talk a good game. But my manager is a stinker. And he's just mean all the time and he doesn't let you know I had a doctor's appointment and I couldn't go. So that's their impression of the company.

Vicky Brown: So we really work hard at making sure that those folks who are coming newly into management or supervisory roles have that they can grow the tools that they need to manage people on a daily basis. And then we do that all the way up the organization. And then when you get to the top, my favorite part is when you're then supporting the CEO or the business leader inside the organization.

Vicky Brown: And so that, that piece is really, really important. We have a little saying where we want to expand the HR toolbox [00:17:00] for managers and supervisors. We don't want our clients ever to leave us, but if they go away, we want them to go away better than. Better than we found them. 

Serena Reynolds: Not everyone wants to be promoted.

Serena Reynolds: Mm-hmm. And also, not everyone should be promoted. Now. There's a lot of organizations that, that you should be paid for doing a great job. Of it shouldn't always be about promotion. I, I remember reading about Microsoft that used to promote sideways, so they would, um, if you were a great developer, that did not make you a great manager.

Serena Reynolds: So great developer doesn't get promoted to a great manager. He just gets. Paid more to be a great developer, for example. So I really, really love that whole understanding of, of everybody's position and not always pushing people to be something that they're not or what they're, what they don't want to be.[00:18:00] 

Serena Reynolds: You said yourself that you were comfortable as, as a number two, as the, as the whisper in, in the CEO's ear, not the CEO. So I, I find that fascinating. Um. And, uh, do, do you find that organizations or or people in themselves actually find it is kind of a concept that's not talked about very often? It's often something that we all think that we all need to be promoted, that we all need to, to, to push ourselves further and, and organizations must have that same mindset.

Serena Reynolds: I think even at school we were trained. We were taught to, to try and step up always. 

Vicky Brown: Right. 

Serena Reynolds: How, how do you feel about that? 

Vicky Brown: It's a really interesting, it's a great question. It's a really interesting, the entire concept is really interesting because honestly, and this is because, you know, I've been around.[00:19:00] 

Vicky Brown: For a while, honestly, some of this is tied to the times, the current times that we're in. Employees feel much more, team members feel much more comfortable thinking about what they need as individuals. I will tell you, when I started in the business world, that was not the case. Everybody wanted to. You know, they didn't want to come in at the bottom, but they did come in at the bottom and the goal, the one and only goal was to keep moving up that ladder.

Vicky Brown: And that meant you built the widget, then you became the supervisor over people building the widget. Then you became manager over the supervisors who were, or the people, you know, you just kept going up that ladder. It was not a question as to whether. You would be a good manager or you wanted to be a manager.

Vicky Brown: That was your goal, because that was the only thing that team members were thinking about because that was the only way that you got ahead Financially. 

Serena Reynolds: You're a widget maker. You are not a [00:20:00] people person. It's a very different skillset. 

Vicky Brown: Exactly. But again, the organizations weren't even acknowledging the fact that this is a different skillset and maybe you're not suited for that.

Vicky Brown: It was like you're really good at widgets. Okay. Pop out, you know, 15 people who are gonna be great at widgets. That's what I need now. And it has just been in the past few, you know, handfuls of years that that has started shifting a little bit. And organizations have started having conversations. And I'm not gonna say it's just the HR leaders who've been leading these conversations because business leaders, um, who are outside of HR have been having these conversations too.

Vicky Brown: But maybe Vicky's not. Suited to manage people who are creating the widget, or Vicky actually came to me and said she doesn't wanna do that. That was unheard of when I started in business. If you went to your boss and said, I don't really wanna be a manager [00:21:00] that. Stopped your career dead in its tracks. It meant that you were going to be, you know, the executive assistant forever.

Vicky Brown: I mean, basically. So team members feel more comfortable now to communicate that because they're really thinking about what works for them. And so I find that really refreshing because then it's a whole different set of questions. It's not, oh, should we promote that person? It's is that person, do they have, first of all, do they wanna do that?

Vicky Brown: That actually is question number one. Question number two is then do they have the skillset to do it or do they have the golden nugget that we can grow into the skillset to do it? And then there's a really delicate balance to keep an eye on. They might be like me, maybe they want to be a really, really great number two, but they could be a really, really great number one, and they just don't know it yet.

Vicky Brown: And so maybe they just need that extra. Push that extra, you know, dosage of confidence [00:22:00] to get them to that next level because you know that they can do it. They don't know it yet, but you know it. So that's why I say leading people is a very, very challenging thing to do. You have to have your eyes and ears open all the time, and you have to know whether you're getting false signals.

Vicky Brown: Is Vicky. Not someone who wants to be promoted, who wants to do that next thing, or is she just still in fear? 'cause she doesn't understand her abilities yet. So, you know, and again, to have the insight and the skillset to be able to recognize even the question is you're talking about a leadership skillset that many times needs to be grown in the CEO or the head of the department or whoever is looking at Vicky, you know, and making that evaluation so.

Vicky Brown: People think it's easy to lead other people if you're really gonna lead them and develop them and grow them and help them show up in their best way and do their best work and be, be fulfilled. [00:23:00] It's a complex dance. It's a tango. 

Serena Reynolds: You are a coach as well. So, so, um, what is it that you coach, you coach people into becoming leaders?

Vicky Brown: I, when I do coaching, it really is around the CEOs of my, the, my, I call them, my organizations, my client companies, and we're really just kind of helping them over the hump. Usually we're talking about a. Dealing with teams and growing their teams, getting the right team members in dealing with poor performers, you know, high performers, et cetera, et cetera.

Vicky Brown: But inevitably, it spreads out into what kind of skill set, you know, where are you taking the company? What kind of skill sets are you gonna need inside your organization in a year, in two years, in five years? Do you grow that? Do you buy that? Do you build that? What are you gonna do? How are you addressing the needs?

Vicky Brown: You know, with AI coming in now I'm talking to a lot of folks about how they [00:24:00] use ai. If they use ai, I am telling 'em they might as well just get on board and use it 'cause it's staying. Uh, but also thinking about the concept of, I'm big on human in the loop. Like not using AI to replace people, but using it like a calculator to support.

Vicky Brown: The folks that you have to be a tool to support them, make their jobs easier so that they can step up to a higher level of what they're doing. So for my team, I wanna use AI to make sure that the low hanging fruit, you know, not that I don't want any of our clients to deal with the chatbot, because by the time you get to HR, you're probably feeling a little bit of, you know, sand in your shoes.

Vicky Brown: So you're not in a great mood and you don't really wanna deal with a chatbot. But my team members. Can use that to get immediate information. So then when they are speaking to the human being on the other end of the, of the a phone, that they can not only provide the right information right away, but they also have the [00:25:00] freedom.

Vicky Brown: Now they're not doing a bunch of, you know, stuck doing a bunch of research. They have the freedom now to be able to be really empathic and to really pick up on all the cues that are coming from that conversation. So when we're talk, when we're talking about coaching, um, uh, coaching CEOs, those are the kinds of questions that I'm finding myself kind of, you know, working through with them now.

Vicky Brown: So inevitably you talk about their team gonna end up talking about their business, and honestly, a lot of it is mindset. For the CEO, it's hard. To lead a company. It's hard to decide you're just gonna do that. And some days are really great and some days are really not as great. So again, that gets back to kind of the CEO whisper, you know, that's, we're back at we, we've come full circle where they know that they can get some support, some clear feedback around.

Vicky Brown: How they can tackle challenges that are coming up for them. And it might be a challenge with a team member or it might be a fa challenge [00:26:00] with a family member. It might be a challenge with, you know, maybe they're just not treating themselves well and, and their health is suffering. And so again, we are there so they can have those challenging conversations if they need to.

Serena Reynolds: Well, I mean, I've heard, heard this a, a number of times that it's lonely at the top. I mean, if you're, if you're at the top of the organization, who do you share your troubles with? You can't, you can't funnel it down. You have to, it has to go somewhere else. And, and sometimes that's your husband or, or your partner or, or whatever.

Serena Reynolds: And, and so, yeah, I mean, I think everyone needs support. 

Vicky Brown: Absolutely. And if you're fortunate, you've built a network. I'm very lucky. I have a network of fellow, actually female CEOs and founders that we all kind of came up together and, you know, I use them all day, every day. I mean, really it's, it's, I would fall over like a tree if it weren't for them.

Vicky Brown: So it's important to build your network if. You know, if a coach is, [00:27:00] is the right idea, that's great. But again, I say build your network. 'cause sometimes you don't need coaching. Sometimes you need emotional support. Sometimes you just need a little love. And so it's important to be able to have folks around you who have walked the walk and talk the talk and know what you're feeling and can give you that emotional support.

Serena Reynolds: So we also have, on this podcast, we hear this a lot about accidental entrepreneurship. Where where circumstance in life has happened and they've gone into business and now they're A CEO and they've got employees and they're an accidental entrepreneur. So where I was going with that was most of the time we become entrepreneurs because we're good at something.

Serena Reynolds: Like you are good at being the CEO whisperer. I was, I was, um, communications and graphic design [00:28:00] and that led me to my business. Doesn't make me a natural leader, doesn't make me a natural anything. It just meant I was good at this and I could make money from this. So. As for the business side of things, I have absolutely no idea and, and people, leadership is something that I try and do well and I try and, you know, but like you said, falling over a tree, if I'm honest with you, daily.

Vicky Brown: Well, it's interesting because, you know, when you start a company, when you decide you're going to start or lead a company, a big chunk of it is. People leadership it, you know that that becomes integral. At least by the time you finally decide you're gonna hire your first employee. In the beginning it might just be you and a, you know, laptop in your second bedroom.

Vicky Brown: That's what I was doing. But eventually you're probably gonna bring someone on board and then you have the complexity of leading someone. And the joy, because I don't wanna make it feel like. [00:29:00] It's just there's all darkness around. Oh my goodness. It's so difficult to lead people and so difficult to grow them, and how do I do that?

Vicky Brown: All of that can be challenging, but the benefit that you get from having team members is off the charts. They will. My team members have put Idomeneo in a position that I never even dreamt of, and I dream really big. We are far beyond anything that I would have considered. I didn't even know we would go in this particular direction.

Vicky Brown: And it's because of my team members and the talent and the support that they bring to what they do every day. It makes a huge difference. So just a little plug for having people on your team because it can be a really wonderful thing. So that is a big aspect of being a leader is having, is leading people.

Vicky Brown: But when you're leading a company, there's all this other. Stuff. And like you said, I was good at what I was good at. Did I know sales? Yeah. Not at all. Did I know marketing. I'm sorry. Market. What did I know? [00:30:00] Accounting. Oh, please don't even talk to me about that. So, right. So there are all these other aspects that you are now responsible for.

Vicky Brown: You're responsible for the whole thing. So. I always tell folks, and this is my motto for me, continuing education, learn as much as you can, and in addition to learning as much as you can, reach out and get experts to support you. I learned about accounting. Am I an accountant? No. Am I gonna do accounting for my company?

Vicky Brown: No. Am I gonna have an accountant? Oh yeah, absolutely. But I also learned about it. I know what a cashflow forecast looks like. I can read one. That was not the case when I started the company. It's my responsibility to have enough knowledge to be able to manage those areas, but absolutely bring in experts to support you to actually get the nitty gritty done and to give you guidance.

Vicky Brown: Because I don't sit around all day thinking about, oh, how does that bill, that just came out impact my, you know, tax status. I what? So it's [00:31:00] important to. Tap into the expertise that's available, but that doesn't get you off the hook from learning as much as you can as well. 

Serena Reynolds: So I'm going to take this back now to your opera days.

Serena Reynolds: How, how has that led? I, I wanna know, is there anything, is there anything that you took from that? Into this business. And also, I wanna know more about the name of your company too. Oh, how you Got It and stuff like that. 

Vicky Brown: Well, it's the name of an opera by Mozart. It has an aria that I like, and it was accidental as well because I was, you know, I had decided.

Vicky Brown: Back in the day, I had decided to go ahead and incorporate, and as I said, it was August of 2001. By that time I remember all this because my birthday's in August, so I remember it was on my birthday. I decided to incorporate and I was going to a conference. I'd been invited to a little seminar conference on branding or something for that [00:32:00] day, and I signed up for it, and they asked for the name of the company and I was like, oh.

Vicky Brown: What, what do I say? I have no idea. And I looked down and on the coffee table was the score of Idomeneo. And I was like, okay. So that's how the company got named. And it's hard to spell and hard to say. And when people tell me I should change it, which every marketing person I've ever spoken to has always said.

Vicky Brown: Actually a couple of interviewees at the company have said that as well. Um, they didn't get the job, but in any event, every time someone told me I should change the name, I said, well, you know what, Adidas. Eventually you're gonna figure it out. So, or we'll just continue to be that, that weird HR company with the I name that Vicky Brown owns, which, you know, after 20 some years, we get that all the time.

Vicky Brown: But it is our identity and it's important to me because it reminds me of the other side of my brain at the time that I was singing. And I never was [00:33:00] singing full-time as a full-time career. I was singing, you know, I had kind of two, I had a full-time career in business and then I had this other, almost full day was basically another 40 hours a week of singing, doing operas, and you know, singing with the Philharmonic and things like that.

Vicky Brown: And so there would be so many times that I would come to work. Face some huge business problem that, or actually before I even had the company and I, because I was singing and working at the time as well, but face some challenge in my working life that I just couldn't figure out. And then I'd go to rehearsal or I'd go to the performance and I'd sit there behind the Los Angeles Philharmonic, a plug for the LA fill, one of the greatest orchestras in the world.

Vicky Brown: I would sit behind the Los Angeles Philharmonic and. We'd be going through some piece that had multiple movements and you know, generally the chorus is gonna sing in the beginning, someplace in the middle, and probably at the end. [00:34:00] And so you sit there. In the other movements, and you're just listening to this fantastic orchestra, I cannot tell you how freeing that was.

Vicky Brown: It's kind of like being in the shower when your great ideas come to you in the shower. It really freed my brain up and my brain would just float along with the music, and inevitably, by the end of that performance I had solved that. The solution for that problem had come to me. Now. At the risk of making it all sound like roses, I would, you know, I'm a neurotic singer, so the auditioning and the learning, the score and the, she's better than me, or there are younger people coming up to take my job and you know, oh my goodness, I hate that director and blah, blah, blah.

Vicky Brown: All of that stuff. 

Serena Reynolds: Just speak to me either. 

Vicky Brown: Right? Well, sorta. So all of that stuff was firmly in place. And so when I would get fed up with the, you know, oh, I don't think so and so likes me, or, you know, so and so, you know, was singing too loud in my ear and it made me off key and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Vicky Brown: I could escape all [00:35:00] of that by going to work where you could do a project from the beginning to the end and competed. And so both sides of my brain have always been really important to me, and I think that I. Really staying in touch with the musical side of my brain has helped me remember the creativity part.

Vicky Brown: And that actually is what has been poured into Leader's Journey experience because that whole, that whole thing is a, is a training platform. It's an education platform. So I'm writing classes and recording them and you know, so that certainly, you know, ticks off the box of the kind of performance thing that I love to do.

Vicky Brown: So it's all just kind of come together in a soup that seems to work. 

Sara Ferrer: Hmm. Was that the inspiration for the book? Because your book, which was written about five years ago, um, is called Sing with your Opera Voice, right? Your journey from Solo Solopreneur to Entrepreneur. So was that the, I have to imagine that was big in, how did that come about?

Sara Ferrer: Do you just decide I'm gonna combine [00:36:00] the two, or were people just really impressed the polarity of both, both careers. 

Vicky Brown: Yeah, you're absolutely right. It it, that is the, the genesis of the book. And the thing is, and you know, I've done a few podcast interviews, so I've had to talk about myself a little bit, and this is the first time that I'm beginning to get an inkling that I think a through line of my story, if you will, is, it's so weird to me to say this.

Vicky Brown: It's not really a lack of confidence, but. Not a full appreciation of my abilities. So the same with your opera voice. The, the opening chapter of that is about a voice lesson with my fabulous voice teacher who no is no longer with us, Naomi, and a. I would be in a lesson and you know, we'd be going along, working through a piece of music and all of a sudden I would, there's a moment that happens when you sing and [00:37:00] everything is aligned and your body is aligned and your breath is doing what it's supposed to do, and you're not.

Vicky Brown: Thinking about it. And I really, for me, it's as though the music is coming from above me and I'm just a vessel and it's just flowing through my, the top of my head and out my mouth. And I don't know how it's happening, but it's just all happening and being a lyric soprano, there are times when, you know, you try to hit a note and it really hits you back.

Vicky Brown: So you know, there are things kicking and go really, really wrong there. But when they go really right, it can feel. Amazing. And I had one of those moments, we were going along, I was doing my thing, it was just okay. And then we went through a passage again and it really hit, and Naomi stopped and she said that right there.

Vicky Brown: What did you do? That's what we're going for. You have to do that all the time. What did you do? And I said to her, I don't know, I just thought. I'd pretend like I was an opera [00:38:00] singer and sing like I thought an opera singer would sing, and that mindset shift for me, and it didn't stick. But that mindset, mindset shift in that particular moment was the thing that allowed my body, because singing is all about your, your muscles being aligned and being on the breath.

Vicky Brown: And you know, it's not, it's not too much pressure or too little pressure. It really is a dance and that mindset shift. Allowed my body to fully align itself without me getting in the way. And I was able to perform up to my capability in that moment. And she said, then think like an opera singer all the time.

Vicky Brown: Pretend you're an opera singer all the time. Do that and. Stepping into the role of running Idomeneo was kind of the same thing. You're gonna, you're, you need to put that jacket on. Be confident, put on the CEO jacket. Step into it. Learn what you need to learn. Know that you don't know everything but.

Vicky Brown: Really [00:39:00] trust yourself that you have the innate natural skillset that you can grow on to become a stellar leader in your organization. And so that's what the book is about, the book's about, you've got it. 

Sara Ferrer: You just need to know you've. Vicky, you're so poised, you're so well spoken. This has been a, but now we like to kinda have a, a, a very HR friendly Gotcha moment.

Sara Ferrer: Yeah, it's very HR friendly. This, we would not get written up. This is, this is very PG 13 where hearing your journey and hearing kind of like, you know, you've been doing these podcasts, so I think naturally there's reflection of your own journey and who you are, and we love to hear that because I think each time I'm, I'm guessing.

Sara Ferrer: Being on that journey myself, you kind of iterate and understand yourself more, right. And tell the story better, which is awesome. Um, and it's a pleasure. I, I think I mentioned this when we first met. I was like, you have just such a great. Podcast voice too. I mean, for nothing else. It's like, it's a real, [00:40:00] sometimes I'm like, oh wait, I have to, I have to keep engaging.

Sara Ferrer: But, but I, I, it's so, it's almost, has anyone told, like maybe it's the opera voice. It's just very tranquil and soothing. Um, which is lovely. It's always a pleasure. 

Vicky Brown: Well, thank you 

Sara Ferrer: to speak to that. But, um, but now we have a fun little, little question. Serena, do you wanna pull that up from a previous. Podcast host, uh, podcast guest.

Sara Ferrer: Um, so I, I can't remember what industry they were in, but it, it doesn't matter. Sometimes people ask things very specific to their industry, very not. Um, but Serena, what do we got on the, uh, on the upcoming question? 

Serena Reynolds: Well, our, our question from our last guest was what gets you fired up? It's a very open question.

Serena Reynolds: Yes, we, we, we don't, we don't, um, guide it in any way. It's now for you to interpret however you wish and answer it however you wish. 

Sara Ferrer: You're a Leo. I'm a Leo too. A lot. Get 

Sara Ferrer: me 

Sara Ferrer: fired [00:41:00] up.

Vicky Brown: I was gonna say anything that involves performance, but, and that is true. But you know, I think the thing that really gets me fired up is sometimes I'll hit a day where, you know, you wake up and it's just kind of blah.

Vicky Brown: I mean, it's not good, it's not bad, it just is. And then, you know, you have a task list and you've gotta get through those things and you're not really in a bad mood. You're just. Not really in a mood at all. And on those days, or maybe you even feel a little heavy because there are some things, some challenges left over from the past few days that haven't been resolved yet or whatever.

Vicky Brown: And on those days, inevitably I will come into work and on my way to my office, I will hear the hum. And I call it the hum. And it's really kind of the low. Low key vibe of my team members working together, dealing with [00:42:00] clients, work, you know, collaborating with one another. All of that brings me a level of joy that is so surprising to me.

Vicky Brown: It just sends me right off the rails and I get emotional when I think about it because it hit me. I remember the first time it happened and it hit me completely out of left field 'cause it wasn't something I expected. It wasn't something I was looking for. I just realized that I felt so proud of them.

Vicky Brown: And so happy to be able to bring these incredible people together and to watch them. I actually had a moment like that yesterday. I was talking to someone, we were doing her one-on-one, and she was talking about what was happening with her department, and she mentioned that a member of her department and a member of another department took it upon themselves to get together every week and do a recap of this one for they both handle different aspects of this one client.

Vicky Brown: They took it upon themselves to [00:43:00] get together and have a, have a meeting every week to review the changes that had happened with this client, because the technology piece that we were using to communicate it's good, but it was leaving out some of the color, you know, it was getting the, the specific facts, but leaving out some additional information and they were like, we keep being at sixes and sevens with this.

Vicky Brown: Maybe if we just got together and kind of went through everything they've been doing that for a while now, was not, their manager's idea, wasn't, and they are entry level folks. That made my heart grow seven times. I mean, I loved it. I loved it. Here are people who saw a challenge. We had been trying to approach this challenge for a number of months.

Vicky Brown: They came up with an idea and executed it on their own, and then told their managers what they were doing, and it has been flawless that. Makes me a happy camper. 

Sara Ferrer: [00:44:00] That's, I thought you were gonna say, I don't know, a piece of cake or something. I, 'cause you know, all the accomplishments, but you just took it there where it's like, even better, that feeling of like stuff is happening that you've created.

Sara Ferrer: Exactly. 

Vicky Brown: Stuff is happening. And that is my greatest joy. My greatest joy is, and it's the greatest challenge. As the leader of the organization, my job is to create a place where people can do their best work, come together, see success. My job, I give them the tools, I give them the opportunity I give them.

Vicky Brown: And when I say the tools, I also mean the success of the organization. So we have fuel, we have revenue, we can, you know, do what we need to do. But that's my, that's my job and I love it. Awesome. And what would you ask the next guest? What are your plans for when you decide to step away or step aside?

Vicky Brown: Because sometimes people will actually, you know, they actually wanna retire and step aside [00:45:00] or step away. But most times with most entrepreneurs, they just wanna step aside. Maybe they're not gonna do the day-to-day anymore and have the direct leadership responsibility, have someone senior below them, but, uh, but they still wanna keep their, you know, eye on what's going on.

Serena Reynolds: Well, you, you know, ultimately we're all trying to build an asset that can be sold or passed down or grown. We we're building assets. We're, we're not employees. We are entrepreneurs. We are building something. And I think, you know, the, the big dream, Sara's sold her company sold her company, so she's already been there.

Serena Reynolds: Um, I think that's what we're all looking to do ultimately at some point. So it's a great question. 

Vicky Brown: And I think it gets lost because when we're starting out, it's such, it's such a struggle to just like get the thing up and running and, you know, that's, we're a hundred percent focused on just making it a thing and [00:46:00] we don't really think about what might future be.

Serena Reynolds: Well, that's the whole thing about being an accidental entrepreneur. Going back to that phrase again, you know, all of a sudden you realize, hang on, am I actually even building something that can be sold here? Or is this a job, or what is this? I think it's good for, for, I'm not gonna say particularly women, maybe particularly women, I'm not sure to actually see entrepreneurship as building assets.

Serena Reynolds: I, I think it's a good reminder for us all to, to, to be grounded in that. 

Vicky Brown: Right. Right. And you're, you're absolutely right. It makes you, it gives you additional information so that some of the choices you make in building your company can be more sustainable. You know, if you, you're just kind of winging it, that's, that can produce different results.

Vicky Brown: So. 

Serena Reynolds: Absolutely. So, um, I, I, [00:47:00] my, my story is currently is I've just been away on holiday. I'm just back and I barely even checked in. My team are wanting it, and, and that, that was the dream for me at the moment. That's, that's my, that was my big. Tick is that my team were, were, were killing it whilst I was away.

Serena Reynolds: They, they were on it. Everything was done. I didn't have to worry about anything and, and for the first time in years, I could go away and I didn't check my emails every five minutes. I didn't answer the phone. If it rang, it went to somebody else and it was, it was beautiful. It was lovely. And, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm heading towards that, that direction all the time now.

Serena Reynolds: That's, that's my focus is, is what am I gonna do when at retirement age, it's, it's actually. Something that's a conversation now. 

Vicky Brown: Oh, that is just perfect. You know, a couple of years ago I finally achieved the goal that I've had for a while of putting together a leadership team, [00:48:00] and that has changed my life.

Vicky Brown: I mean, really it has changed my life really being able to take some time away or focus on this new Division of Leader's journey or you know, whatever it is. I now have the bandwidth to actually think the thoughts and do the thing. So it's been really, it's been wonderful. So I commend you have, being able to go away and just really go away is amazing.

Serena Reynolds: And, and I think this is just a really good reminder for, for all our accidental entrepreneurs and all these women that are great at something and started a company based around that, that it is ultimately, it's gotta go somewhere. You want it to go somewhere. It, you are, you are not going to get promotion if you're CEO if you're the founder.

Serena Reynolds: It's just. So, so you've got to go somewhere. And it's always good to have those goals. 

Sara Ferrer: And I don't know [00:49:00] if Serena had mentioned this, but you know, when people are, we have a, a, an a, solid listening, solid listener, follower following. And um, we always like to kind of shout out, you know, of course on our website we have all the formal links and ways to find you Of course.

Sara Ferrer: But is there anything in particular, an Instagram page or something, uh, nugget of wisdom that you kind of wanna leave behind or just, you know, a, a, a project on the side book number two, something that as we wrap up, you kind of wanna put out there that maybe isn't on the website yet, or something exciting that's coming up.

Sara Ferrer: Yeah. And if not, that's cool too. That's cool too. If not, or maybe it's, it's an Instagram account that you wanna get a little love to. 

Vicky Brown: I have. Well, thank you for asking. I have a couple of things. First of all, I have a gift for your listeners, and so I'll give you the link to that, but I also have a little golden nugget for them.

Vicky Brown: So I did this last year, I think it was, [00:50:00] and I put together, I did it in video form. I did an annual letter as though I was doing a letter to shareholders. I'm the only shareholder, but there you go. I did an annual letter because it gives you a nice opportunity to kind of recap what's been happening in the business, but I didn't do it for, I did it last year.

Vicky Brown: I didn't do it for 2024. I did it for 2027, so I actually did an annual recap for the years between 2024 and 2027, and I included. Our goals for 2027 as though they had already happened, and I talked about the success that we had and where we were and what was going on. And that one thing, I go back to it occasionally, that has been a thousand times better for me than looking at my goals written down.

Vicky Brown: And you know, I have a goal for this year and I have a goal for this quarter, and I certainly have those things. From inspiration viewpoint [00:51:00] to be able to go back and look at a video annual letter for three years, pretty amazing and I still have a lot of work to do, so I would suggest go ahead and put together where you, you know, really envision where you feel like you're gonna be in three years.

Vicky Brown: Three is a good number for me. Five is a little bit far out and one is still too close. But three is good. So that's my golden nugget. As far as the gift is concerned, I'm an HR person, so of course I'm gonna give you some HR compliance stuff and you can find that at Vicky Brown hr. 'cause I'm not gonna make anybody spell Domino.

Vicky Brown: So Vicky Brown, HR V-I-C-K-Y-V-R-O-W-N hr.com/podcast gift. 

Sara Ferrer: We'll have all your info, our listeners know on fearless and flawed.com. And this has been, you know, I think we, we often get people who have, you know, fell into careers or, or have, you know, some, some a, a [00:52:00] different career background or resume than what they're doing now.

Sara Ferrer: We've never had anyone remotely close to opera singer, so I just have to say there is really, like, we've had like, you know, artists turned, business owner, um, you know, musician turned. But not even musician. More of like more hobby, if you will. So this is really a treat to see that like there is, there is life on both ends and you could thrive and use lessons from both, right?

Sara Ferrer: Be, be, be the opera singer when you go into that big board meeting, right? Like be heard, put your shoulders back. I love it. And thank you for sharing with us, Vicky. This is really a, uh, a treat to learn about your journey. So thank you.

Vicky Brown: Well, thank you. Likewise. What fun.