Madjeen Lorthe Ep 15 F and F
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Serena Reynolds: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Serena Reynolds from Conceptiv here in London in the UK,

Sara Ferrer: and my name is Sara Ferrer from Saraferrerco.com. And today we have with us Madjeen Lorthe. Madjeen is a certified life and career transition coach based in Boston, Massachusetts. She has over two decades of experience in nonprofit leadership and mental health counseling.

She specializes in guiding women of color through significant life changes. And she helps them navigate transitions with confidence and ease. So welcome to miss, , Madjeen Lorthe. Thank you for joining us today.

Madjeen Lorthe: Hi, Sara. Hi, Serena. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, we’ve been talking and I’ve already been having a really good time, so I’m excited for what this conversation is taking us.

Sara Ferrer: Yes, well, we’ve had the pleasure of knowing a little bit [00:01:00] about your story before we’ve officially started to record, so let’s just kind of kick it off with what inspired you to create , transitions well done, which is the business, which is the, uh, your current business and how is your personal journey shaped the mission of this business?

So tell us all things. Transitions.

Madjeen Lorthe: Thank you. So my journey into, , owning my own coaching practice has not been linear. It actually started, um, I would say five years ago at my last, , job where I was working as a director of shelter services. And I came at a crossroad where I had to make a decision about whether or not I was going to continue in the Career path or make a different decision for myself that was going to sustain my well being.

I made the decision to leave, , the leadership role that I was in because I felt like It was no longer in alignment [00:02:00] with my goals and my mission. And so I stepped out and I became a coach. I started working with students, college students who are navigating college independently as a clinical coach.

My background in mental health counseling gave me. The expertise and the knowledge to step into that role. And as I was coaching students, I realized that there are in transitions and that yet again, I’m working with a population that’s been in transition. And so I started to think of how do people transition, right?

And do we do it with, , intention or do we just throw ourselves in it without thinking about what are the phases that we go through when we are navigating change? And so This brought me to the pandemic when again, I was thinking of, I could do this work as a clinician since I already have the background, but I was working with people who [00:03:00] are always in crisis and that was taking an impact and a toll on my mental health as well.

What I noticed was with coaching, there are similarities between coaching and therapy. One of the things that I love about coaching is that it’s not crisis driven. You’re working with people who are at a place where they’re probably thinking of, okay, I’m doing well. And I want to take the next step to thrive, to not just survive, but thrive.

And so I made the move to open my own coaching practice. And I wanted to focus on women because as a woman myself, who’ve gone through many changes, knowing that there are times when I could have been more intentional about the changes I was going through, the decisions that I was going through and helping me see, gain clarity and, , a clearer path to what’s next for me.

And so that’s one of the reasons why I decided to focus on, , women who are navigating change and transitions. Because , [00:04:00] those are the things that most align with me and what the impact that I want to leave in this world.

Serena Reynolds: But can I ask what kind of transitions are you talking about?

Madjeen Lorthe: So one thing that I would make sure I make the distinction between is change and transition, right?

The change is the external life event that we’re experiencing. So we’re experiencing a life event like a career transition, you’re getting promoted, you’re retiring. You’re, , becoming an emerging leader. , you are leading a team that’s going through a change management. Those are all external, or it could be a life event such as myself, what I just went through as an empty nester, right?

Or a divorce. Those are life events that take place, but then what we don’t focus on is the internal process, that external life event. And so there are phases that we go to go through, for example, letting go before we’re [00:05:00] able to step into the unknown. That’s a piece of the transition, the internal process that we go through when we’re experiencing change.

And so that’s the piece that I focus on. So I, for example, if you look at a career transition, oftentimes when we’re in it, we’re looking to update our resume, update LinkedIn. Right. Right. Network. Some of these things are happening and it’s all outside of us. What I do is go in inward and focus on what’s what’s your confidence level, right?

What are the patterns? What are the behaviors? What are the attitudes that you have about this change that you’re experiencing that you’re not yet going into the surface to explore? And we explore that together in coaching.

Serena Reynolds: Okay, so, so just to put it in, in my very layman terms here, for example, you got made redundant, uh, lost your job due to cutbacks, , [00:06:00] and you’re out job hunting.

That’s the external. That’s what you’re doing. That’s your, that’s. That’s the practical side of it. But how do you feel about that? Do you feel as though your self confidence was knocked? Do you feel as though your self worth isn’t as, as high as, as you could perceive it? Is, is that the, that’s the kind of thing that you

Madjeen Lorthe: Yes, Serena, that’s exactly what it is, because , you are dealing with the doubts.

You might also be dealing with the uncertainty of what the question that we often ask ourself, what’s next. And oftentimes we get in this place of, discomfort because the unknown is so is looming so large for us. And we are. You know, thinking that this change is the same as the last change. So we’re already going intense, not leaving room for what we could explore what the opportunities are.

So a lot of times people come in and they might [00:07:00] say, you know, I, I, I know I’m going to be going through a transition. I know I’m in a transition right now. But it’s all fog for them, right? They are not able to see through some of the things that are barriers that are coming up for them are the internal limiting beliefs, right?

And just thinking about, you know, I’ve often think of change as hard. I’ve always think of change as this thing. I have, I have to spiral in it, right? It’s. I’m just wondering what I try to do when you’re open to coaching is let’s explore what the possibilities are. Could there be a rebirth happening?

Right? What’s, what’s emerging for you? Is there a new you emerging that you’re making room?

Sara Ferrer: This is like, I feel like what you’re saying, a lot of people can relate to, right? Change transition. But I have to ask you. I always find in my experience, those who are able to talk through the process of change, through the process of transition, typically have a story [00:08:00] of their own, of fighting change, fighting transition, doing all the things that they are now teaching other people how to cope with.

And so. Give us a little insight. What got you to this point where you can now say, Hey, I’m going to help guide you through. Tell us about some changes, some transitions, some, you know, some of those moments where fear was, , you know, , you were laying beside it. Walk us through what that looks like to get to the point where you now can be a guide and a coach.

Madjeen Lorthe: Yeah, and you’re so right. Oftentimes the work that we’re doing is work that we’ve done on ourselves before to get to where we are right now where we could be the guide. So the, in the beginning I shared the story of having to leave, , A leadership role that I was in to step into doing coaching. What I didn’t share yet is that before getting into that role, I had been working at a nonprofit place for 10 years.

And when I came to a point where I was thinking like, I’m, I need to grow, right. I [00:09:00] want to grow. And I’m not sure what the next steps are for me. And of course, as an ambitious. Ambitious women, woman and driven woman, I was thinking of, I need to just step up the ladder. Right. And so I started looking for roles that I’ll be moving up because my goal at the time was, you know, in five years time to become CEO of a nonprofit.

CEO of a nonprofit organization. That’d been the dream, the goal that I had in mind and had been working towards. And so I left the place that I was at for 10 years thinking, okay, there’s a new position. I, I interviewed for it. I’m qualified for it. I’m, I’m gunning for it. So I went for it and I got it. I got to that.

To that place, I made the change, right? Not really realizing that there’s so much more going on inside of me besides wanting to just step up the ladder. , so I made the change and then of course I got to it. Oftentimes we are [00:10:00] excited for the next thing, right? And when you get to the next thing, you’re like, wait a second.

This is not what I was thinking. That’s, this is what’s going to be. And you start to wonder what did I miss? Right. And in that. And that change, one of the things that I didn’t realize is how letting go of a place I’d been at for 10 years was a, was a big emotional piece that I was not processing.

Serena Reynolds: I was actually reading an article the other day was actually talking about leaving a job as , there, there’s an element of losing a family member or.

It’s like a death that even though it’s a choice that you’ve moved on, that it could still have that kind of grip on somebody and have detrimental effects to their mental health.

Madjeen Lorthe: Exactly. And what we can call ambiguous loss, right? We think of loss as this You know, the, , [00:11:00] ones that we typically think about death, right.

Divorce things like that, but leaving a job is a loss. You have to grief that you have to go through the grieving process. There’s a grief there that again, I was not tuning into, right. I was just moving to excited for the next big thing for me. And the other piece of it is you’re used to a. One culture and you moving to a different culture that has different dynamics.

Right. And so all of these things are happening at this time. And there’s some friction happening for me that I’m not paying attention to. After a few months, I started to talk to friends about it, what I’m, what I’ve been experiencing. And my, also what I started to notice is that my body was telling me that this was not it for me.

Right. You know, you, Some of us have read the book and also, , heard about it. The body keeps [00:12:00] the body keeps the score, right? And so I started to notice some of these symptoms that I was having that I was, um, I never experienced before. And so as I’m talking to my friends, one of them suggested that I, reach out to an executive coach.

And so I reached out to an executive coach and we started, I started coaching was my first time coaching and the executive coach in my sessions, , suggested that I reach out to a career coach because as I was talking about , my experience, like my job and the change that I’m experiencing, she said, maybe it’s time you explore

other options for, for yourself. And so that led me to, working with two coaches at the same time, right? The executive coach was helping me manage the day to day role that I was in, the leadership role that I was in. And then the career coach was helping me think through what, what is it that, that I’m not satisfied with in my career right [00:13:00] now?

And what would I want to see myself doing? And how. Can I get myself through where I am now to get to where I want to be. And so I was doing that simultaneously and it wasn’t an investment in myself because at the time I was really struggling with, I thought this was going to be fun and exciting, this new beginning for me.

And I thought I was ready for it, but again, all these internal things were happening and I wasn’t connecting the dots. Right. And I got to a point where. I realized that I needed to make a decision, not only for myself, but for my family, because my , well being was at risk because the workplace was toxic.

Also while I’m experiencing all these differences that comes with the change that I was experiencing. And so I made the decision. I said, you know what? It’s okay. I’ll demote myself.

For [00:14:00] me, as a mental health clinician, it was a moment of clarity of what is sustainable. And we have, we often as women have to make those decisions as caretakers of what’s sustainable for myself. And also how do I put my mask, the mask on first. Before I can take care of the team that I have, and I was still managing and my family, and I made the decision to leave the position and look for something else.

And what I ended, what I landed, the nonprofit place I ended at and the work that I ended up doing for them, being a coach for college students was not anything that I ever thought I would be doing. , but I got there and saw the difference. It was like a breath of fresh air, right? So it really takes a really long time to get to a place where you can get the clarity, right?

And oftentimes we’re, , in conflict. We have this internal conflict with ourselves [00:15:00] because I’m seeing the goal that I had for years and I’m where I worked towards it and I’m at a, I’m at a place where I felt like that should be it. But then other things, you know, that’s happening internally for me in terms of maybe this is not the way you get to your goal.

So all of these things were happening for me. And , that’s one change that I experienced. And I went through that transition that led me to that. I’ve experienced many other changes in life events in my life, like divorce, moving, being an empty nest, recently empty nester, recently relocating.

And so those are things that not only do I do in my work, but I leave, I live and breathe every day as well. And I have to, , think about how am I role modeling some of these things for my 19 year old daughter as well, because she is going through her own changes. , I want to be able to help her through those things, , as well.[00:16:00]

Sara Ferrer: Can I, can I, sorry, I’m a, I’m a pretty literal person, right? So when I hear these changes and challenges, I’m nodding my head, but I have to ask you, can you give us insight into what that feels like? Like we hear a lot about why I’m changing. I’m transitioning. What does that feel like? Is that anxiety? Is that losing your hair?

Is that restlessness? Cause I think one thing we don’t talk enough about. Are those kind of ugly symptoms, , those really, you know, those depressive episodes, those loss of appetites. And so my goal is that. A, one, I believe that whatever you went through is probably what your current clients come to you for.

So there’s a sense of relation, there, but also I, I, I find it very empowering and freeing to speak openly and again, you know, whatever you, you choose to share, but can you just give us insight about that struggle, like, like really literally what did that Thank you. Feel like what was the name behind it?

So maybe there’s someone listening who can say, Oh, wait, I’m not crazy. [00:17:00] This is a sign of burnout.

Madjeen Lorthe: I lost a community that I’d had for, you know, 10 years. , and I was feeling, , imposter syndrome in the new workplace, because I was thinking I. Was sought after for this position, you knew I could add value to this, um, to the work that you’re doing here, but yet I’m not feeling valuable or I’m not feeling valued.

I was also, you know, doubting, I started to doubt, like my skills doubt is, um, I started to doubt, like, is this the work that I really was meant to, to do to work with people? Right. I started to question am I. In alignment with my values, right? There, there are a number of uncertainties that were happening as, you know, as a leader in my [00:18:00] Um, as a parent, I was, , questioning, you know, am I doing this out of selfishness because I want to be, you know, a CEO, what, even everything, everything I’m doing is telling me that may not be the way for me right now.

, and so there’s a lot of things that were coming up for me that. Was really rocking my world because it, you know, when you, you have a certain, , foundation, and I’d been in the nonprofit field for, you know, a really long time at that point. And I had built a reputation for being, you know, competent, skilled, experienced and expert.

And here I am in this role where all of that is, you know, am I really those things, right? Where you question that. , and so what, what was that? And we often go internally, like you start to doubt doubt you, right? But really sometimes it’s the [00:19:00] environment that you win. It may not be a fit for you. Right.

And how do you gain clarity around what it is? Right. Or it could be. At this moment in your life, that’s not where you’re meant to be, right? So there’s, I, I think there are moments where, you know, I even was like crying because I’m like, during every, , time after work, I would go to a friend and explain like what’s happening and asking that same question you asked Sara, am I crazy?

Oh my god, what’s going on? See,

Serena Reynolds: I’m hearing this and I’m thinking, my god, if my friend came up to me and said, every time I leave work I’m crying, I don’t want to be there, I struggle to go in in the morning, I’d be like, girl, don’t go, just find something else, move on. It’s not so easy when it’s myself. It’s not so easy to take my own advice.

So what was it, what was that pivotal moment for you? What was it? Did you have a sign? Was there a [00:20:00] rainbow in the road? What was it that made you think, do you know what? This is it. I’ve got to, I’ve got to move on. I’ve got to do something different.

Madjeen Lorthe: So I’d mentioned earlier that one of those friends that I was clinging to said, you know, go see this coach that I had.

They really helped me. That started the trajectory of me really planning, having an action plan, working with that coach. We started working on an action plan of how, how I would exit. What would I need to put in place to exit?

Serena Reynolds: We’ve spoken to a lot of women now and so often we hear, Oh, I just had a sense.

So there was a sign, listen for the signs, listen for whatever, and yours was like a really practical. Well, it was, it was two,

Madjeen Lorthe: it was twofold and this is how it goes. We had a plan like straight down. So you’re going to have this conversation with so and so, this is what you’re going to say. If they say this, you say that, like we had this, [00:21:00] and then I’m there.

Having that conversation that my coach and I talked through and as you know, women caretaking, you can call it whatever you want, people pleaser. And the moment came was like, okay, I accept your resignation, but can you stay a little bit longer to get us through this? This timeframe and guess what I said, I said, yes, I said, I said, yes.

And then, and also like, again, like you have to, you have expectations of yourself. I’m not a quitter is what I was saying, even though I’d walk through that plan. And also I want to be helpful. Yes. I understand. I know the season that we’re in right now, I know you need the help. And, you know, you know, all of those things are going through my head.

And I said, yes. And then guess what? That other piece you mentioned, uh, Serena came up [00:22:00] after I said, yes, I continued. And then my body gave in. I had a panic attack at the job. I, and my coworker saw me, I was walking down the hall in the, in, , in our , building. And she said, Madjeen, are you okay? I was like, all right.

I don’t think so. Because my hands were feeling clammy. My heart was beating really fast. I couldn’t hold myself up. And she’s like, okay, do you want me to take you to the emergency room? I said, yes, because I wasn’t sure what was happening. Right? Again, , been in the mental health field, been a clinician myself, but I’ve never experienced a panic attack before.

And I wasn’t putting that language. To it at the time, because I just wasn’t sure what I was experiencing. I just know that I wasn’t feeling well. I had to hold on to the wall to keep myself up is what I know. I knew at the time, and she took me to the emergency room and, you know, they ran all the tests and I was fine.

And, you know, the nurse was like, I think you might have just been having a panic attack because everything else [00:23:00] is coming after, you know, they hold you and they assessed you. And there I, I stayed in for them to, whatever, however many hours I needed to stay there for them to assess me. And then when I left, I got home, I sent a text.

Saying, I’m not coming back

Sara Ferrer: wow snap it up

Madjeen Lorthe: and that’s, that’s to show you that even though sometimes you have the plan, it could still be difficult. It could still be hard to take that next step. And unfortunately it took. My body having to experience all of this stress, all the stresses, all the burnout sign, and we all, and I’m sure you have to experience it where you’re just like, okay, I can manage, I’ll continue to push forward.

Serena Reynolds: I, I like to think of as you’re talking, I’ve got. I, you know, [00:24:00] from Dumbo, I think it is the train going up the hill. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can. I’ve got that going through my head and that’s so my personality. I’m going to get to the top. Just, just keep chugging. I’m going to get there.

I’m going to get there. I’m going to get there. Or, you know, I think on one of our podcasts, we, you know, we’ve had the, the Dory just keep swimming kind of analogy. This is so, so common, especially for women. We, you know, we feel as though we have to take on. everything ourselves. We have to take on the home.

We have to take on the children. We have to take on the job , you know, many of us will take on the family finances if, if the husband isn’t that way inclined, et cetera, et cetera. , and we do, we, we kind of, I don’t know, I feel as though sometimes it’s like we’ve got this basket and we just walk around and pick up things that other people leave behind and, and claim it as our own.

It’s now our. our thing to deal with. , and I, I think a lot of [00:25:00] us women can, can appreciate that. I certainly can. I’m hoping you guys do too. And I’m not just talking for

myself.

Madjeen Lorthe: No, no, you’re not. And I think,

Serena Reynolds: I mean, I’ve got a very wise friend that often tells me, Serena, You need to look after yourself because if you don’t look after yourself, who’s going to look after everybody else?

And that’s, that’s her thing. You can’t look after everybody else if you’re not, if you’re not taking care of yourself first. Right. I like that analogy. If that helps anybody,

Sara Ferrer: I, Serena, I think that that you hit the nail on the, I liked that analogy of the basket. And I’m also going to add to this too, that making what I appreciate about this, you know, up to this point in the story is.

See, I’m a big believer in balance in life and the older I get, the more I appreciate and you know, quote unquote, see the signs, feel it, whatever. I’m more in tune to that. Good things happen. Bad things happen. You know, you got to get the rainbow comes after the rain and it sounds so cliche, but the [00:26:00] more you live, the more wisdom you gain, the more you realize that sometimes the beautiful awakening happens after the nervous breakdown and essentially, you know, and so what I’m hearing is like, Hey, not just you felt a certain way your body gave out.

So my folk, maybe I’m projecting now. My hope is that now you’ve had the awakening. Now, this said, okay, Madjeen, it ain’t working, girl. This is not like you got to stop. Your body literally shut down. Tell us now what door that opened and how now coaching, you know, I’m going to assume coaching now became the focus, but what’s the balance to the panic attack, the imposter syndrome talk through that other side?

Because I think again, to a lot of people listening, there’s always another side. To the, uh, the depletion. We just need to remember that despite the [00:27:00] circumstances.

Serena Reynolds: The butterfly breaking through the chrysalis.

Sara Ferrer: Correct. Correct. So what was your

Madjeen Lorthe: I made the decision I needed to let go of my dream, because the, before a new beginning can start, you have to end, then there needs to be an ending before a new beginning starts.

Serena Reynolds: So did you find it hard to shake that off?

Madjeen Lorthe: Oh, of course.

Serena Reynolds: Did you, did you like, you know, doubt and all the rest of it, did that creep in?

Madjeen Lorthe: So right now, as you said, uh, Sara. Right now I have the clarity. I’m in like the butterfly stage. I’m in the renewals phase. I’m in the renewal phase of the transition. But then when I had to make the decision, there was a lot, a lot, a lot of doubt.

Because again, The dream that I had to let go with is came with a lot of hard work, a lot of sweat [00:28:00] being poured into, you know, making this path that I thought was going to lead me to somewhere. Right. And coming to terms with you’re letting go of this. And what’s next. And so after letting go, I have to, I have to stay in the unknown.

I have to be in the unknown. And that can, that the gap that we talk about sometimes is the, it can be the most scary part of the journey because. As a parent at the time, how do I take care of my family? Right? How do I take care of my family? As someone who really enjoy working with people like this experience, what does that mean?

Do I not enjoy working with people? Do I not enjoy leading teams? What does that mean?

Sara Ferrer: Do I hate people? Basically, we’ve all been at that moment where it’s like, we’ve all had that moment.

Madjeen Lorthe: Right? I, I already got like, you know, bachelor’s, master’s. What now? Like, do I have to go back and get [00:29:00] another degree?

What, what is it that I have to do?

Serena Reynolds: And you were working in this field. You were working and helping and supporting other people go through this. Yes. Yes. And then you were in your, I mean, do you, do you feel as though maybe, I’m really just projecting here. Do you feel as though maybe it’s because you were, it’s hard to always hear about other people’s struggles?

And not take it on board yourself.

Madjeen Lorthe: No, I don’t think that was it for me. I, I, I truly think that at the time when I experienced this, I rushed into the next step, right? I, again, was rushing through what I thought was It’s supposed to be the expectations that I had put on myself, the cultural expectations, the societal expectations, all of those expectations of you’re supposed to do this, this, this, that, that, right.

You should, it’s the shoulds, right? So [00:30:00] I rushed into that next step for myself. Without fully listening. To myself and what also other people were telling me, right, uh, to be honest. And so when I got to that place, then it didn’t take me a really long time to realize that this was not a fit for me because I’m a very, I, uh, am a very intuitive person.

It was like week three, I was like, Ooh, something is not going right here. Right. But again, you have these. I have these patterns, these behaviors, these beliefs that one, I’m not a quitter, right? I just got here. My last job was 10 years. I cannot leave after, you know, three months or something like that.

Right? So all these things go through your mind as, as you’re noticing these things. But to, to go back to your question of what happened next, I had to live in the unknown. I had to make decisions, right? I had to make decisions [00:31:00] that were. Maybe not ideal decisions, but at the time, what was really carrying me was I need to make decisions that are going to help me be in a sustainable state for myself, my family, and whoever I’m working with.

Right. I’m not doing anyone any services. I’m, if I’m not showing up my full self, if I’m not showing up. Well, and so those, like my wellbeing was what was carrying me while I was in the unknown, right? There might be things might be, you know, rough challenging, but I need to be here to really think about what’s, what’s next for me before I make the same mistake of rushing into what the next, the, the next decision.

And I really think. Coaching having someone to help you put all the thoughts that are going through your mind and you know, help you bring clarity around that. And coaching is not going to give you advice. They’re not going to tell you [00:32:00] what to do. The answers are in you. What coaching is going to do is help evoke those things, right?

Bring them to light so that you can then see what it is that you’re working with and make your own decision because What I do with my clients and make sure that they know they have the agency, they have the agency to make the decisions. Like I’m working with, uh, a leader right now who, when she thought she knew that her family, her entire family is experiencing different changes and she needed to really take care of herself , as she goes into supporting her family through that.

And yet in coaching, she’s. She’s having a hard time prioritizing herself. It’s always about, as you were saying, Serena, I have to do this. I’m picking up the basket and I’m adding things to it. And my, my helping her is how do you allow yourself to own your story as it, as it is emerging, right? So [00:33:00] again, you have met what you had before may not be, what’s going to continue.

Do you give yourself room to explore what What’s the next pivot for you? And that can be scary to think of. Oh, that means I there’s an identity I need to either let go of Right. We do a lot of identity exploration because parenting takes up a big piece of our identities. Right. And so we hold on to the hat or being a, being a career driven woman is a big identity that sometimes we hold.

And when we have things happening in our lives that may be pushing us to think, maybe, maybe not. Then we get into like, okay, you know, what, what’s happening. And then it starts to feel rocky.

Sara Ferrer: Madjeen. I want to ask you, so it sounds like through the, you know, the emerging of this crisis quote unquote moment, this is where transitions well done your, your coaching business comes in because now [00:34:00] we’ve talked about your clients and now you’re, you’re out there helping people who are in your past.

You know, who, who are experiencing what you have in the past. So for our listeners out there, let’s say someone emails you, they find you online, they call you up, they say, Hey, I’m going through this transition. Can you just walk us through. You know what your role is. You’ve mentioned really, you know, bringing out certain things in the person, but what, what does it look like from first inquiry to meeting them, to setting them up for success, to then being considered a successful client case?

What does that look like for transitions well done.

Madjeen Lorthe: Yeah. So what I focus on three components, it’s awareness, action, and accountability. So from the beginning, we talk about when you call in for consultation, that’s where the awareness starts, right? What is going on for you right now? That is. [00:35:00] Peaking your interest into coaching, right?

And sometimes I have to keep asking that question because some of the things that are happening right now may have been happening already for some time, but there’s something that’s, that’s really pushing the needle for you to seek help. And so what we’re going to, we’re going to delve into that more.

And we, um, I do assessments, different assessment with clients. We do, , What we call a desk where we talk about your different, comp competencies in your life that are going on. We do the life wheel, like the, the different parts of your life, physical, emotional wellbeing, things like that, your career, your financial, where are the pain points and where are you sensing that?

There, there needs to be a change or a change is happening in is causing some friction internally. And we look at, is this a reactive transition, right? Or is this a developmental transition, right? I have a big, someone might say, I have a big birthday coming up. I’m [00:36:00] turning 50, right? And next year. And what does that mean for me?

Because what I thought 50 was going to look like, it’s not what it seems like, right? So that’s like a developmental piece. That’s coming, that’s coming out for you. Reactive transition is again, what I shared before about there’s an external life event that’s happening. That’s causing some internal discomfort that you want to walk, walk through.

So that’s the awareness piece. And then the action piece is that now that you know, now that you have some awareness of what’s happening for you, Where, where do you feel like you can take action? What feels, actionable for you? Right. And it’s always about managing expectations because we come in and we think that, you know, it’s all going to be taken care of, or we want to take care of all the issues and that’s where we get overwhelmed, right?

Because we have all these different buckets of life. All these balls that we’re juggling. And so where does it feel like you can commit? [00:37:00] Where can you commit to take action in your life? And then the accountability piece comes in. Each time you show up in coaching, what were you able to do? Before a client leaves a coaching session, I ask them, between now and the next time we meet, what are you committing to doing?

In regards to what we just talked about, right? What is it that you’re going to say I’m going to do? And that’s a promise that I’m holding for myself because it’s going to help me move forward because you gain momentum by, by taking action. Right. And oftentimes I’m working with people who have decision paralysis, right?

Because there’s so many things happening. I don’t know where to. I don’t know where to start. And you just like sit there and think like the decision is going to appear in front of me. I’ve been through that myself. Right. And so it’s, for me, [00:38:00] it’s helping them manage, manage all the different pieces. Right.

What’s the priority. And I also do, one of the things that I think about is , Maslow hierarchy of needs, right? What you’re working on right now. Does it fit into. You know, your basic needs, right? Because when you’re trying to prioritize what’s urgent, what’s not urgent, what can I delegate? Why can I put, you know, down for another time?

It’s that hierarchy of needs, right?

Serena Reynolds: Is that the same as what’s urgent? There’s two, there’s two sides of it, isn’t there?

Madjeen Lorthe: Right. There’s Eisenhower matrix that talks about four quadrants that talks about what’s urgent, what you can delegate, you know, what you can put down for later, get to later. And then there’s the Maslow hierarchy hierarchy of needs where it’s like, you know, you get to the top and that’s self actualization.

But before you get to that, there’s the basic needs, there’s the belonging, there’s. Safety. So those are two things that I, [00:39:00] I bring into coaching to help in the decision making when you’re prioritizing what to, you know, as you’re going through changes, it’s impacting you, but it’s also impacting others and life doesn’t stop, right?

You know, life doesn’t stop as you’re managing, what you’re dealing with the uncertainties that are happening for you. And so how do you prioritize that? And , so that you give yourself. Grace, right? I always, you know, say to my clients, we’re in a world where we often are asked to do, not often told to be.

And so sometimes where can you make room to, to be

Serena Reynolds: what you were talking about, , decision fatigue and stuff like that, just to share it with everyone oversharing here. That, that’s, that’s me. I, I’ve decided to delegate things like what’s for dinner. I’ve done enough today. I’m not doing what’s for dinner.

That’s for somebody else. I’m, I’m done with decision making. This is not mine to [00:40:00] take. Somebody else can, somebody else do that. That’s, that’s my, uh, delegation in my Their, at least.

Madjeen Lorthe: And you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay that that’s, I’m gonna, I’m taking off that mic.

Serena Reynolds: I’m fine with it.

Their little left fine with it.

Sara Ferrer: When you were walking us through that process. It’s out because I’ll be very honest with you. I, before I understood coaching, I just thought it was like a glorified therapist without training. He was like, well, how do you feel? You know, or like, uh, what’s your goal? Let’s work towards it.

And we’ll just talk through it. So understanding now, essentially, if I can regurgitate it back, it’s. Understanding why that person’s there, having these, these guides, this structure, kind of like your coach did for you. Let’s work through this. Let’s talk through it. There’s always going to be, you know, uh, decisions to be made.

I’m here to guide and to help. It’s not to fix or to solve. But now you have, you’re not carrying the weight on your shoulder alone, you have someone who’s invested in, you know, in it with [00:41:00] you. So it sounds like it’s very structured. It sounds like it’s very well thought out. It sounds like the goals are very measurable, but I have to ask you.

If you had to go back to the way beginning, cause this is a question from our previous, guests who we always do this little game where we say, Hey, for our next guest, what’s the question you want to ask? And our last guest, Sara Neil from Insta fake cards. Said, you know, whoever the next guest is, I want you to ask them, what would you have changed in the beginning?

Because again, it sounds like what, where you’re at, you’ve talked through it, it’s making sense to me, but what was it always like that in the beginning? What would you have changed from transitions? Well done. If he could go back and say, Ooh, I could have done this better. What would it have been?

Madjeen Lorthe: Honestly, I wouldn’t spend so much money.

I wouldn’t spend so much money on, trying to figure it all out in one sitting, right? I would leave [00:42:00] room for the, for the business to tell me what, what holes, what gaps it is. Because again, I think that you, when you start a business, you have so many voices telling you how to structure it, how to do it, and you lose your voice.

And you lose your own thoughts in that, you know, whole ring of my roll around, you know, uh, how, how to be a business owner that I, and I spent a lot of money up front trying to make it. Into something that’s out there, but not necessarily my own. And so I I’ve, I’ve shifted that and I’m continuing to remember, remember that and leaning into my intuition of like, knowing what I, knowing what I know, and also, having humility to know what I don’t know so that I can seek the help, ~not necessarily to structure my, ~ not necessarily to tell me who do I work with, but.

Um, how do I make it a sustainable [00:43:00] business?

Sara Ferrer: That’s fantastic. And what would you ask our next guest? What’s the question you have a blind question. You don’t know who they are. You don’t know it can be anything. What’s one thing you would ask our next woman in charge? What would you ask them? Cause this is kind of our little fun, spontaneous.

And again, it doesn’t have to be like super deep or super heavy. We always remind our guests that it can be very light and airy, like what’s your favorite movie, but no one ever goes with light and airy. Everyone always goes with like deep and transformational when we love that, but no pressure,

Madjeen Lorthe: no pressure,

Serena Reynolds: no presh

I’m going to quote that

Madjeen Lorthe: my question would be, where can you create room to, to be, and where can you create room to be instead of doing

Sara Ferrer: that is. That’s good. That’s good.

You know, for some reason when you said, when you said that, I like started thinking like, what would I answer to that? Like, it’s [00:44:00] very rare that I take the question and start like internalizing it, but I’m like, oh, that felt like she was.

My intuition tells me she, she wants me to figure it out.

Madjeen Lorthe: Yeah, we all need to figure that out for ourselves. Right. And it’s a daily, daily reflection, like in this, you know, right now in this moment work, how can I, how can I be instead of doing, because as you said, as women fearless leaders, often we’re doing.

And how can you be and get, be okay with the being and don’t constantly feel like you have to be in the doing modes. There are two modes, the being in the doing. So what can you, where can you be?

Sara Ferrer: And if our listeners are thinking, okay, she’s, he’s walked me through her process. She’s guided me through, you know, her own coaching business.

I like this. I like her questions. I liked her answers. Where, as we wrap up, where [00:45:00] can people find you? Where is it? Is it online? Is it in person where you’re based in Boston? Correct. But just, you know, let our listeners know where can people get more of your goodness.

Serena Reynolds: Just as I always do, you can always find her on Fearless and Flawed do com.

Yes.

Madjeen Lorthe: Well, I’ve enjoyed this conversation so much with you, Serena and Sara. So yes, you can find me on this podcast. Please listen to Fearless and Flawed and,~ um,~ you can also find me at Transitions Well done on Instagram and on my, website Transitions. Well done. I’m also on LinkedIn Madjeen Lorthe. I love to connect with people.

So please book a, you know, virtual coffee chat with me and we’ll get to talk and connect. If, ~um,~ if there’s any way that I can be of support, please let me know. And I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed our conversations. You ladies make me feel so welcome. You ask insightful [00:46:00] questions and I so appreciate the time that I had with you.

Sara Ferrer: Likewise, let me tell you, I don’t know about you, Serena, but I am, I am ending this call. Like the minute that this call ends, I don’t know, I’m just going to go out in the streets in Madrid, hold my head high and start proclaiming. I am the thing. I am this thing. I got it going on.

Serena Reynolds: I’m going to find my B.

Sara Ferrer: Exactly. Like I’m just, I’m feeling like through hearing your process, like There is something about that, that, not hearing it, but feeling it. So thank you, Mayjean, because I think what you’ve given us through your experience is like, wait, wait, wait. I do. I do. I do have my shit together. Like I am going to be okay.

Even if I felt okay, I feel more okay now. So thank you. That’s a gift I think you naturally have and you found it and now you offer it in the form of a service to others. But just talking to you is, is such a treat. So thank you.

Madjeen Lorthe: Thank you, Sara. Thank you, [00:47:00] Serena.