Sara Ferrer: [00:00:00] Welcome to Fearless and Flawed. Today we're joined by Barbara Burgess, the founder of Corluma, a transformational guide for high achieving women who are ready to step beyond the surface and enter their deeper truth. After years of outward success in the corporate world, Barbara followed an inner calling that led her to blend soul work strategy and intuitive insight.

Sara Ferrer: In this conversation, we explore what real transformation looks like when we stop trying to fix ourselves and start remembering who we truly are. 

Serena Reynolds: And I'm Serena and I help bold leaders become the go-to experts in this space. 

Sara Ferrer: And I'm Sara, an email marketing pro here to convert clicks into cash.

Sara Ferrer: Together we are two women in charge, digging into the fearless. Flawed and the oso. Fabulous journeys of female founders rewriting the rules. 

Serena Reynolds: So [00:01:00] let's dive in. Welcome to our show, Barbara. 

Barbara Burgess: Thank you. So good to be here. As you both know, I've been looking forward to it, 

Serena Reynolds: your journey from a high level executive to a transformational guide.

Serena Reynolds: It's incredibly inspiring. What was the pivotal mo moment that made you shift in that direction? 

Barbara Burgess: Uh, I think the big. Moment was sort of an experience I had at a coffee shop and that was, you know, literally sitting in a space reflecting on my upcoming year and looking like tangibly at the calendar and you know, looking ahead to see what was gonna happen and.

Barbara Burgess: I saw a training that I had done year after year after year on my calendar, and I experienced a full body, no, like every part of me, my head myself was like, mm-hmm we're not doing it. We're absolutely not doing it. And you know, I am skeptical even with myself. So I was skeptical with myself and was like, what do you mean?

Barbara Burgess: And I had been with this company [00:02:00] for over 20 years, so this was not a light thought that I had at that moment. And it was like, Nope. Done, done, done, done. And so I literally sat and discussed with myself and reasoned with myself like. But why? Why? Right? And I ended up having things falling into three buckets and one was a, it's just time for something new.

Barbara Burgess: Like what were you thinking? Doing anything for two decades, like you're a dynamic creature. That's enough. You know, two was being a later in life mom and wanting to be around to catch things in the cracks for my teenagers because. They don't care about your time or timeline. It's like whenever they feel like sharing.

Barbara Burgess: But the third was also I had done a lot to try to make things better where I was. And you know, my metaphor is like I was hitting my head against the brick wall for the third time, expecting it to move. And so you finally have that moment like, oh, that's not going anywhere. And it was a [00:03:00] combination of those three things that I.

Barbara Burgess: Was like, alright, I guess I gotta do this. So I literally came home and I told my husband, and again, imagine two decades, and married to an engineer. I was like, Hey, I gotta quit my job. And he just sort of looked at me and was like, all righty then. And that began a whole new journey. Dinner must have been real weird that night.

Barbara Burgess: You know, it, it was, there were conversations that followed. I give him credit having an engineering mind. The fact that he let it digest and didn't have something like, what were you thinking or what, or no, he just, you know, I watched the wheels turn and then, you know, he made the call. So I give him credits for that one.

Serena Reynolds: So what were you doing before? 

Barbara Burgess: I was a COO of a company that did leadership training and development, and we had a graduate university, we had a nonprofit, we had all these different things. And so, you know, a pretty sort of mission based company. And you know, I had [00:04:00] worked my way into that position and it.

Barbara Burgess: You know, I had been named from a, you know, board member perspective that I would be the inherent CEO. Like that was the next thing. But, you know, working with the leaders that I was working with at the time, like I realized like the things are still gonna be problematic even if I'm in charge. You know, my CEO probably would've moved to the board, and so really it wouldn't have been mine.

Barbara Burgess: And so, you know, although it kept me stimulated for many years, 'cause we didn't start out with all these different areas. You know, I had joked to a, a boss at one point in time. I said, listen, I am I an idiot that I've been here this long. But we're like, no. 'cause it's been a startup every three years. Like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna move into this area now.

Barbara Burgess: We're gonna have a graduate, now we're gonna do a nonprofit now. You know, all that kind of stuff. So that. I kept it interesting. But yeah, so I was COO probably would've moved into CEO in the next couple years, and now it was time to go. 

Serena Reynolds: But you had that soul crushing moment when you realized that, Nope, I [00:05:00] can't do it anymore.

Barbara Burgess: Yeah, and I think really, you know, being willing to listen to that. Like, I think we always have these, you know, kind of internal conversations that could guide us elsewhere, but there's, it's so easy to rationalize our way out of it rather than listen to ourself. And I think there are, you know, these few turning point moments you have in your life where like literally I had the insight on Sunday, came home and told my husband and gave notice on Tuesday.

Barbara Burgess: That is not always what happens. Right? And so the listening to me was the, almost the bigger, uh, trajectory shift. 

Serena Reynolds: Is it once you like kind of said it out loud, that was it. There was no going back. 

Barbara Burgess: It was, and, and again, I think once I said it out loud and argued with myself, right. Once I had actually made a case for the reason of it, you know, and by the way, it was terrifying.

Barbara Burgess: Like you put that much into a place and like, who am I? What am I gonna do? Will I add value somewhere else? Dah, dah da. Like [00:06:00] all the self doubts are right there, you know, so, and I gave a really long notice, so I was there for six months transitioning my job, making sure everybody had everything they needed as I was want to do.

Barbara Burgess: Which was an error. In retrospect, that was a big mistake. That was an overgiving, but I didn't know at the time and you know, so I was making sure everything stood up. So it was still like I was a month into giving notice where I was like, I wonder what I'm gonna be doing. You know? It's not like I had the plan first.

Barbara Burgess: It kind of emerged over time. 

Serena Reynolds: I love that. That's such a power move. 

Barbara Burgess: Well, and we have to celebrate the ones we have. 'cause I have plenty of moves that have been cowardly over my career. Okay. 

Sara Ferrer: It's always balance and it's, but it sounds like. I appre, I, I really appreciate your perspective now, kind of reflecting on it.

Sara Ferrer: But in that moment, you know, if I'm on the peripheral looking at what you just told me, your 20 year career, your resume, you would appear to be someone who had it all, A supportive husband. Uh, [00:07:00] you know, you come home and you say, he didn't dismiss me, a thriving career. Um, but it wasn't enough. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara Burgess: Well, I think there, and you know, obviously we'll lean into this, there's two kinds of enough, right? There is the not enough in the sense of like, if I have one more achievement, do one more thing, add one more thing to my resume. There's that moment in time, right? But then there's just that sense of rightness that is much more bodily experienced in my, you know, opinion where it's like.

Barbara Burgess: Is there something else that is calling to me at this moment in time? Is there somewhere else I should be? Is whatever, but I'm just too afraid to make the move because the framework that I've been living into might fall down. Right? You know, is this gonna be a problem if I shift? And, you know, I think that was the piece that was scarier, right?

Barbara Burgess: Is you, you, you live into certain ruts and routines over time and. [00:08:00] What is it if I change the whole thing, but the enough of listening to myself was more compelling. You know, it's like that voice was louder at that moment in time than the one who thought I should build a resume, you know? And I think that just becomes uninteresting at some point in time.

Barbara Burgess: Like, okay, good. Now I, I can do that. Great. And I have the house, I have the kids, I have the husband, I have the thing. What am I doing? What brings me joy, what am, how am I spending my life force? Right? And I think it's really easy to get in the assumptions that the world tries to tell us that that next thing will do it.

Barbara Burgess: Right. That's just consumption mindset. Right. But I was as sucked in as anybody I think. 

Sara Ferrer: Yeah. And you knew enough to know to To get out of it and to listen. Which I think is a lot of our listeners. We know we want balance. We say we want balance, right? We, we say we wanna have it all. But is there a bit of a fallacy to that, right?

Sara Ferrer: Having it [00:09:00] all in one world means having to sacrifice in others. And it seems like you came to this point, you shifted and tell us how was the journey of the shift because it can't be as easy as waving a magical wand and then everything just falls together. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah, well in some, some certain things. It was that vote that I gave myself to trust.

Barbara Burgess: My choice was huge. You know, I think that gave me a certain level of audacity that I hadn't felt in a long time. Like, oh my God, did I just say that out loud? Did I, you know, did that just happen? Right. So I think that was very confidence building in some ways. Um, and the, the. Safety part of me just got to the business of detailing my job and trying to figure out how to hand it off, right?

Barbara Burgess: That's a comfort level of like, oh, I'll just keep myself busy with all the tasks. Right? So those pieces made a lot of sense. But the space of the holy cow, what next was? I feel like a dynamic back and forth [00:10:00] between terror and joy. You know, like there were certain things that I realized, like I, I had spent a lot of my evenings and weekends doing work for the company.

Barbara Burgess: I was like, I don't have to do that. Like, there was just this whole freedom, right. That came with like, I could do anything. I remember making this list of all the things I could do that. Would earn money. And it wasn't that I was gonna go do them, but it was just this exercise in that choice and possibility.

Barbara Burgess: Right? Like I could, I mean anything, just anything could pay the bills. And so like if the slate is clean, what's available if, if other people's opinions are not the main driver, what's available? Right. You know, and I think I might have shared this with you guys before, but like I do do this. You know, exercise where I fast forward to end of days and you know, kind of run myself through what will have mattered at the end.

Barbara Burgess: You know, I used to be a hospice volunteer and so that it kind of forces you to look at life as a finite thing. [00:11:00] It is not endless. And given that if I were to fast forward to the end of days, well, I'd be like. Good job. I stayed five more years and got that title and delivered 20 more programs. Like, no, you know, I will regret the fact that I didn't try other stuff, even if I failed.

Barbara Burgess: Right. And so I think there was a lot of freedom coming from that, you know, experience to make the leap. 

Serena Reynolds: So, so what, what did you do next? So it sounds to me as though you clung on a little bit to your safety net. 

Barbara Burgess: Thank you. Thank you. I will accept that. Serena? Yes, I did. I dysfunctionally clung on for too long.

Barbara Burgess: But what, what happened in the midst of that was I was talking to people and I was open, right? And so I had had several people. Say, why don't you just start your own thing? And I had ruled it out immediately initially, because I was like, I'm not that person. And that person was a ridiculously gender biased, 1950s version of what an [00:12:00] entrepreneur looks like.

Barbara Burgess: You know, like, you know, oh, I'm not enough of a risk taker. I'm not, you know, I don't lead things this way. I'm not the person that's super extroverted in all the spaces. I'm not, like, I had all the reasons I didn't fit this really outdated, stereotypical profile. And so I had originally kind of dismissed that, but it's, it was like this little baby seed that got planted.

Barbara Burgess: It started growing and I was like, Ooh, you know, so many delightful things like. I'm the only, only approver of anything I do. Wow. That would be amazing. You know, I get to like, I think it did shift from I have to, to I get to was the joy of the entrepreneur's journey, right? And so somewhere in that six month transition, it just became the thing, and then I just started talking about it like it was true.

Barbara Burgess: Like people would ask me, well, what are you gonna do? I said, I'm starting my own business. And like. That started popping outta my mouth, which gave it a certain reality, you know? And then I got to [00:13:00] distract myself with some of the setting up things, you know, getting a QuickBooks account, getting whatever the things are right.

Barbara Burgess: And again, have, having been in the role of COO I had overseen our financials. I'd done a lot of that stuff. So those pieces. Were some of those were easier to do. It was more getting over the fact of what does an entrepreneur look like? And could I possibly, 

Serena Reynolds: so many of the women that we've had on here have accidentally fallen into entrepreneurship.

Serena Reynolds: Yeah. I remember my daughter once saying to me, I want to be an entrepreneur, and I was like, oh yeah, what you mean? You mean like mom? And she's like, no, a real one. I dunno. I, I still dunno what she meant by that, but you might, 

Barbara Burgess: you probably better not asking Right. Some things we don't wanna know the answer to.

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. 

Serena Reynolds: So, so we obviously have some kind of preconceived idea of what an entrepreneur is in our head, and, and maybe we, we don't fit it and 

Barbara Burgess: that's okay. [00:14:00] And to that point, like I had spent years supporting and co-leading women's leadership and development training. So I, I live in the, the combating the stereotype.

Barbara Burgess: You know, I consult in those things. And so to recognize like there literally was this. Stereotype existing in my unconscious mind was news to me. You know, it was like, oh, who are you? And what are you doing there? You know? I didn't realize you existed. Right. And I think that's part of the extreme joy of being an entrepreneur from the other perspective is, gosh, you get to meet so many people doing it with their own fingerprint.

Barbara Burgess: That varies so widely, and that's the joy of it, right? I don't have to do it how anybody, I mean, even getting business, it was like. No, I'm not gonna, I know a whole system of sales. I could teach someone. I taught it for a decade. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't wanna use that. I don't think so. I think I'm gonna go out and have fun and meet people and talk about stuff and you know, follow my heart and my soul and see where it [00:15:00] leads me.

Barbara Burgess: And I, I think that might work. And I've never been able to test it out. 

Sara Ferrer: That is like the epiphany of like. Okay. I know imposter syndrome at, to some degree, even if we actively work against it, even if we empower others, we, we feel it at some point. And so you work through it or, and again, not to say it doesn't exist, it creeps up, but you work alongside it if nothing else.

Sara Ferrer: And, and Corluma comes up. Corluma is your consulting agency. You help executives and companies. Really shine a light on the essence of a challenge or an opportunity. So again, sounds very type A driven. Little guilty, little guilty there. But again, I think for the true type A women out there, and we very much identify, listen, you're probably not gonna spend the rest of your days at home [00:16:00] baking sourdough bread.

Sara Ferrer: That would be great, that no shade to that. You are a woman who likes a certain being on the go, moving and grooving. And so you create this company and yes, it's your own footprint. Yes, you are at the, the head of the table, if you will, but is it bringing you, first of all, tell us about the company, but then like, does it bring you what you thought it would?

Sara Ferrer: Is it giving you that, yes, this is me, or are you like, shit, I'm back in the trap. 

Barbara Burgess: Uh, I, I think it is. And, but I'll tell you, it's because of how I defined it, right? So the name itself is, I couldn't find, I had plenty of ideas for names, and they were all taken, you know, I was like, okay, there's no website URL I can get with that.

Barbara Burgess: But, so I ended up with this combination, but. Core really being from the root of the word, you know, heart and Luma being light. And so really to me, I was like, that is, that is more [00:17:00] what I care about and who I am. And so, you know, my drivenness comes more out of like, I'm driven to care. I'm driven to show up and be present.

Barbara Burgess: I'm driven, you know, to kind of lean into more of the being than the doing ironically for what I do. But when I set it up, my intent was, and I think this is where it's continued to be, there, is it's an umbrella. For whatever the F I wanna do. That was the intent. And so the part of picking the name was so that anything could live under there.

Barbara Burgess: Right? So although the reason I did executive coaching and consulting and training and I'm doing some teaching and all that kind of stuff is 'cause it was low hanging logical fruit. I've done these things, you know, I was a co-led our consulting business at our company and so like I know how to do those things.

Barbara Burgess: So it's just like, it was an easy thing to lean into, but I feel like it. Is a dynamic entity that gets to keep shifting as I get to keep shifting. Right? So, you know, did I know when [00:18:00] I set that up that I would go write a book? Did I know that I was gonna go do this one woman show? Did I know any of those things?

Barbara Burgess: No. But the beauty of the name itself was like, it can be anything. Right? And so for me, that's the joy of it in the sense that I will tell you right now that if we talk in another year. However I describe it is probably gonna be different. I can almost feel the invitation tugging at me that we're ti it's time for another shift.

Barbara Burgess: I just am not totally sure what it looks like yet. And the part of the joy of doing it my own way is I don't have to know. I just get to lean into new stuff and then it gets to live under this thing. Right? So I just literally said this to somebody the other day because I do a lot of executive coaching and they were like.

Barbara Burgess: You know, they said something like, oh, did you always know you wanna be an executive coach? I'm like, no. Quite the opposite. I zero desire to be an executive coach, and actually at my company, I resisted doing it because what a stupid, boring job. I mean, [00:19:00] literally at some level now, what I have discovered is that really that's, that's in itself its own moniker.

Barbara Burgess: What I get to do is meet cool people. I get to really meet cool people, and I get to contribute to them in any way that I can. I don't care if we call it this, that's a fine, appropriate businessy name, but it, it could be through a thousand different venues, right? Like the more that I'm in the business, the more I understand what the business is, is me getting to help somebody.

Barbara Burgess: And the more that I stretch into my own discomfort, it's me getting to help somebody in ways that don't fit molds and aren't stereotypical, like even the coaching process I follow. Isn't exactly like what I was trained in, you know? And I tell people that like they'll do chem check calls with me and I'm like, Hey, this is how I roll.

Barbara Burgess: So like, if that's a fit for you, great. And if it's not, you probably don't wanna pick me. Like don't pick me if you want that other thing. 'cause I'm not gonna do that thing like [00:20:00] life's too short and I would be terribly bored doing that. So, you know, I mean, I think to your question. Because it doesn't, it just has a now definition.

Barbara Burgess: The company, it doesn't have a permanent definition, so I feel pretty free. You know, 

Sara Ferrer: I love that. I, I think Serena and I talk a lot about, you know, Serena and, and your experience. You've talked a lot about you are this, you are more than a graphic designer. You are more than just painting pretty pictures.

Sara Ferrer: And you got to a point, I remember a very profound conversation where if you just want the person. Who is gonna paint the pretty picture for the lowest price? Don't pick Serena. So she's gonna give you strategy, she's gonna give you comprehensive marketing alongside her creative, you know, brain. So there's power in saying, don't pick me.

Sara Ferrer: Yes. If, if, if this is not a right fit, versus, okay, I'll give you a coupon, pick me. 

Barbara Burgess: [00:21:00] Well, and I think those definitions even are so historically outdated. Right. Like I do think we get to be, you know, a modern version of Renaissance women, and I think all these titles and things feel to me like straight jackets.

Barbara Burgess: Right. So, you know, I, I joked with both of you before we got on that I went and, you know, stalked you more online after I'd met you. And, you know, to me the fun part, not just about sharing services, but about purchasing them, is I also don't have to live in those definitions of purchasing them. Like I can tell that Serena just makes magic.

Barbara Burgess: In different areas. So like, we can call it some fancy business names 'cause that's what people buy and they might Google for SEO, but that's not really it. Right. You know, and, and you know, Sara, you're like, the world is your playground and like, oh yeah, I'm doing this now but then I'm doing this now and then whatever.

Barbara Burgess: And, you know, any way that I could, you know, drive and contribute. Like, you know, it's just that [00:22:00] our, our structures are a little limited, right? Our ways we describe things. The fact that we feel like we have to say. Something rational to somebody when they ask us, well, what do you do? Right? Well, I don't know.

Barbara Burgess: I do a lot of stuff. I care about people, you know, I, I like to eat good food. I, you know, try to probably pretty ineffectively raise children. You know, I try to contribute to humanity through this businessy thing. I also get to disgusted by it and, you know, rail off it. You know, I, there's a lot of things I do.

Barbara Burgess: Right. You know? But you know, there's certain things that people pay me money for and you know, those change over time as well. And I think, again, the freedom of the business is we get to do it our own way. And I think there's a next level of evolution of female entrepreneur that will shed a lot more of the titles.

Barbara Burgess: You know, I think what we've seen over time with social media is like, you see the comma, comma, comma, comma. Oh, I'm a creator. I'm an artist. I'm a this, I'm a that, I'm a that. You know, I think that's gonna continue to evolve. And I think the younger [00:23:00] women are doing a beautiful job in entrepreneurial circles of like, forget the titles.

Barbara Burgess: You know, I do a lot of stuff. You know, you identify however you wanna identify, which is great. 

Serena Reynolds: See, see, personally being a Brit, um, we would hear Americans describe what they do and it would be very. It would be very long and convoluted and, um, sounds super, super impressive. I remember hearing somebody describe what they, they did once and um, I had to translate it in my head.

Serena Reynolds: Basically, they were unemployed. But it sounded as though they had a really highly impressive position. Yes, yes, yes. I, I, I think, I mean, I'm, I'm really jealous of that because my natural instinct when somebody says to me, so what do you do? I go, well, I'm a graphic designer. I draw pretty pictures for a living.

Serena Reynolds: I haven't done that for years, but it's my safe zone. [00:24:00] So, you know, I stay there. So, and yeah, so I think that's the very British thing as well is not just, not just the female thing. So the, the combination is, is horrendous, but, 

Barbara Burgess: well, and I think, you know, to me what's interesting is like the authenticity piece, right?

Barbara Burgess: That's even a buzzword, but like, who are you really? Who are you? Who are you when you're, when everything's a mess and the world is falling apart, who are you? Like, who do you call? What's it look like? How do you, you know, like those things to me are interesting about humanity way more than a lot of the other things we ask questions about.

Barbara Burgess: And I think, you know, the authenticity, you know, it probably is neither in the Brit version or the American version, neither. Nor, because, you know, again, to, to your point, like a lot of what I do in consulting is like I'm translating really. Complex stuff into normal people speak. And I also say like, if you can't say it at a sixth grade teaching level, you don't know, stop gaming.[00:25:00] 

Barbara Burgess: You have no idea. Right? And part of the thing is like, you get to be dumb and say, okay, hmm, take me back again. What does that really mean? So like when you go to the office, you know, what do your fingers do? What do you, who do you talk to? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's what you get to do. Sounds just like marketing.

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. Yeah. Do we get to be audacious enough to say, you know, I, there's a lot of things I do for money. I don't know. Do you really wanna hear? I mean, you know, and I think a lot of times what we're really trying to say when we're at those things is like, hi human. I'm another human. Like I, I'd like to, I'd like to know you and maybe I'll like you and maybe you'll like me.

Barbara Burgess: I mean, that's really what's going on, right. With all this title exchange and stuff that way. But you know, I, to me, the business moniker, the logo is an umbrella for a playground, and that's how I intend to use it. And we'll see how it goes. I don't know. 

Sara Ferrer: Well, it sounds like under that umbrella you've added author because you, you [00:26:00] have written enough, which is, uh.

Sara Ferrer: Enough is a heartfelt manifesto for anyone caught in the trap of not enough. So I know we're trying to deviate away from titles, but new author, hello Barbara. B I'm gonna w bestselling author. I I, I'm just gonna put it out there because we're, we're, we're not waiting for things to happen. They've already happened.

Sara Ferrer: And so how, how did you get there? 

Barbara Burgess: These, as I was having the break right, the cracks in the sidewalk of quitting my job. And literally there was more time and space to like experience. All the other things, right, that aren't the busyness and the distractions. And so I was having these really beautiful experiences and moments of with people and with, you know, opportunities and things like that.

Barbara Burgess: And I just started grabbing them and jotting them down originally with no intent other than savoring, right? Like, oh my gosh, this just happened. [00:27:00] This just happened. This just happened. And you know, it was probably. You know, partway through that, that all of a sudden it was like, oh, I think I'm supposed to write this thing, you know, and it was that same kind of voice that told me to leave.

Barbara Burgess: It's the same kind of voice that was, you know, kind of saying, just do this thing. Right? There was one, one moment, which is a story I tell at the very beginning of the book. That was the moment that started that whole thing, which was me taking some old sidewalk chalk we had and an old container and putting it out on my sidewalk.

Barbara Burgess: I'm in Chicago and just saying, please write chalk or draw. And I drew a couple of colorful circles and, and it was really like I was cleaning out clutter at some level, but I thought, oh, that'll be fun. My kids are older so they weren't gonna use it. Right. And it. Turned into like a profound experience that still is happening to this day.

Barbara Burgess: Literally as of this morning, which I have a, a quick snip on, but I was sitting up on [00:28:00] my porch. People couldn't see me, but there was a little boy that came by tugging on his parents, you know, shirt asking to draw and I could hear this, but they couldn't see me. So it was like the most beautiful sacred space of overhearing intimacy and.

Barbara Burgess: I hear him, you know, talking, drawing like sweet leader, like, oh, little blue, all little pan. This just beautiful like music. And you know, I just thought it was sweet. And then I wanted to respect their space and I waited until I couldn't hear them talking anymore and I didn't hear anything else. And I thought, all right, I'm gonna pop down and see.

Barbara Burgess: And I just assumed as a parent, like. I'm sure this is a scribble that is supposed to be a cat or whatever they, you know, kids do. And I looked down and I literally physically felt stopped in my tracks. I totally teared up. I tear up thinking about it again because this kid had taken these. Colorful circles I made [00:29:00] and put rings around them and made this whole thing into space.

Barbara Burgess: It was like there were gorgeous multicolor planets on my sidewalk from this thing that was so I'm just gonna get rid of chalk in my thing. And I was so moved by that in the sense of. This is not a thing that costs money. This was not a thing that, you know, it was just this profound and it was where I first felt in that journey, the sense of enough, it was literally like I had this felt sense inside my body that someone was like hugging me and, and it was just, I was so moved and so that.

Barbara Burgess: Started this whole experience that I think like kind of cracked my heart open to these little micro moments and literally this still goes on to this day. I, I. This morning, I was having a tough time last night and I'm gonna cry thinking about it. I walked out this morning and somebody had written on there like, people write [00:30:00] big hearts, I love you.

Barbara Burgess: All kinds of stuff. But I was again, having a moment. I walked outside and right there, somebody had written, you're doing great. Keep going. And I was like, you know. I, I texted it to my husband 'cause he knew I was having a moment and I said, I guess the, you know, sidewalk chalk, Oracle has spoken 'cause it's what I needed.

Barbara Burgess: Right? But the fact that that gift from three years ago keeps on giving is amazing to me. And it's where it is a sense of enough, it's like for all of our divisiveness, for all of our scramble, for all of the self-importance, like that small act that that boy did. Changed the trajectory of my days in a significant way, and then I couldn't unsee all these other experiences I started having.

Barbara Burgess: So I wrote about 'em. That's incredible. 

Serena Reynolds: I'm gonna go and buy some chalk, then I'm gonna go and see what my neighbors think. There you go. 

Barbara Burgess: There you go. Yeah. [00:31:00] I mean, I've had people stop me in the front of the house that, because some of them, like some people are artists, you know, like they, and you know, we're in a walkable neighborhood and I've had people stop me and they said, oh, I'm your nighttime artist.

Barbara Burgess: I'm the one that draws the cartoons because I know exactly who they are, you know? And I, I've had people come and literally they'll donate chalk, put it out there, somebody replaced the jar. They had cracked. I mean, it is like a community thing now, you know? I, I, 

Serena Reynolds: I'm, I'm totally in awe. I want that outside my house.

Serena Reynolds: I, I can't imagine it round here. Yeah. But that sounds incredible. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah, I, I will send pictures because you would just be floored. It's just, and I, you know, I said in the book, but it's when we realized, we were just talking about titles, but I was meeting people not through their titles, but through these pictures on their hearts, truly, like whether it was somebody expressing love or somebody.

Barbara Burgess: Graduating or some whatever it was like we were meeting each other. In [00:32:00] fact, there was one character named Max who would always sign everything, you know, from max da da da dah. And at the time I published the book, I hadn't met Max yet, and I, I pictured, in my mind it was like a 7-year-old boy. And at some point a woman comes by, we were having, I don't know, say yard sale or something, and comes by and says, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah Max.

Barbara Burgess: And I'm like, wait a minute. Max is yours, da da da. And I thought she was the mom. Come to find out Max is a dog. I mean, literally she was signing for the dog. And I was like, oh my God, that's hilarious. But you know, max and I had a little love affair back and forth 'cause I would write, hi Max, good morning Max.

Barbara Burgess: You know. So, yeah, but that, that experience led to many experiences, which led to many more lessons and insights that, you know, I say when I published the book, I believe it really started, its deeper teaching of me. You [00:33:00] know, if somebody else reads it, I find that lovely, but I think it was meant for me to know that.

Barbara Burgess: I'm enough that what I have is enough that everything is, and from that space, it's like there's so much more permission to play and do stuff and try stuff and be stuff, you know, as an entrepreneur than I would've ever had without that sense. I, 

Serena Reynolds: I think that little pot of chalk turned into a whole community starter.

Serena Reynolds: Sounds credible. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. Yeah. And again, not planned, you know, and again, I, you look at, did this cost any money? No, this stuff was already sitting in my house. And I mean, that's my belief at some level. Like if we could let down a lot of that artifice and we could all just engage with each other, there's so much to give and receive that isn't in the framework that we've set up in the world.

Barbara Burgess: It just isn't. 

Sara Ferrer: I don't know if, if, if the question, we usually ask questions to our guests at this point. I feel [00:34:00] like I already know Barbara's answer to the question. Serena, Barbara does not know the question, but I feel like, oh, what a bad question to ask her. 'cause she's so in her truth. Let's ask her anyways.

Sara Ferrer: Barbara, what this is from a previous guest. What is the number that would allow you to burn down your business? And would you I feel like I already know the answer, but I don't know. I, 

Barbara Burgess: I, I feel like we should ask you first what my answer is. 

Sara Ferrer: Oh, well, well, I'll tell you what I think it is. I think. I think so much of what you have represented and you've learned in your journey is there's more than, yes, a paycheck is essential, but it's not everything.

Sara Ferrer: Yes, I do things for money, but it's not me. So I don't know. I don't know if there's a number, but then you're also very rational and logical. So maybe it's, it's 20 mil. Call it a day. 

Barbara Burgess: Well, I'll, I'll give you two answers to that question because when it comes [00:35:00] to actually burning down the business. I don't need to, it's an umbrella of a playground, so it's okay.

Barbara Burgess: It doesn't have to be anything. So there's no, you know, restriction. But I have played the lottery and I have. You know, amounts of money in my mind that are more in the like 50 million range, but, and I've got plans, okay. I have spreadsheets that I've even put together. It's the good I wanna do in the world, and I will tell you exactly what I would do if loads of money came my way, which I welcome.

Barbara Burgess: Thank you so much. I want to literally continue to empower people, but in a more financial way. To have that leg up to do the crazy thing, to do the wild thing. You know, particularly underserved populations, people don't have access. That's what I would do with that money. Like, I mean, what am I gonna do?

Barbara Burgess: Buy, like, you know, another house like, yes, I'd, I'd refinish my couches. They have some stains. But beyond that, like I really want to use it for good in the world. I find it [00:36:00] reprehensible that there are people who have more money than they could ever, ever, ever, ever use. There's so many problems that are totally solvable.

Barbara Burgess: Like not hard, right? Like, and so like I don't actually understand why we have world hunger. I think it's a mythology, like we could solve it right now if all the excess went to the people that needed it. I bet with the greatest minds we could map that and do it now. These are not so why, you know? And I think that's just my little girl naive.

Barbara Burgess: Like, why can't we all get along? Why are we killing each other? I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense to me. And so, yes, I definitely have dollar amounts that I would do other wildly outrageous things for, but it was mostly to be empowering of folks to, you know, really get access to the wild opportunities.

Barbara Burgess: I know plenty of, and I'm gonna say it guys. Who got funded in their businesses and then get all this credit later, oh, you sold it for this huge multiple and [00:37:00] that was amazing and dah dah, dah. I'm like, yeah, but look at all the cash that went in. Like you give any one of my girlfriends that many millions, are you kidding me?

Barbara Burgess: She'd be embarrassed if she didn't do that, or more like really? So anyways, to say like, that's what I would do with it. So 

Sara Ferrer: 50 million's the answer? 

Barbara Burgess: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta pay taxes and all that kind of stuff. And then we want it leverageable enough. So, 

Sara Ferrer: but I love that answer. 'cause what you basically said was, it was twofold.

Sara Ferrer: You let us know a number, but then you also let us know what you would do with it, which is so very much par for your, I think your purpose what, what your soul aligned with, which I just absolutely love. And what would you ask the next guest? You have no idea who they are. You have no idea what industry they're in.

Sara Ferrer: What's your question for them? It can be simple. It can be deep. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. No, I think, again, even back to this question of how I like to know [00:38:00] about people, I, I think I would wanna know, uh, what do they do when they feel raw and vulnerable? Ooh. You know, I think there's just so many, so many things we can learn about a human out of that.

Sara Ferrer: Yeah, I just felt very raw and vulnerable when you asked that. I was just like, oh God, raw and vulnerable. Get me a Ben and Jerry's. I need to cry. Why? I don't, oh, let me journal. 

Barbara Burgess: And it could be, it could be that, right? It could be that. It could be, you know, phone a friend. It could be, you know, benchmark. I don't know.

Barbara Burgess: I just think it'd be interesting. 

Sara Ferrer: Huh. I love that question. And I'll tell you why I really like it. It's, I think two words, raw and vulnerable. Just initially evoke an emotion. Mm. Just evokes something like, like the minute you said that, I was like, oh God, am I naked? This is weird. 

Serena Reynolds: Yeah, it's very exposed.

Serena Reynolds: You're right. It's exposing. [00:39:00] It's exposing and just thinking about about it because 

Sara Ferrer: it's kind of that. Yeah, she didn't, she didn't say anything crazy. She just asked, what do you do? And I'm like, don't go there, Barbara. This is a PG 13 podcast.

Barbara Burgess: I, I think about this though, with what both of you do, you know, for money.

Barbara Burgess: I'll say that. 'cause you do a lot of things, I'm sure, but. To me, the brands that I love, the people that I love to put my money to buy their goods and their services and all that kind of stuff are the ones that are so themselves. Right. And I think that's part of, in a, in an authentic way, whether it's, you know, trying to get.

Barbara Burgess: Clicks on something or to create something that's beautiful that reflects somebody, the ones that interest me are the ones that are really real. And I think that vulnerability is part of it, right? Like, you know, again, I think part of this is in my early career I was in marketing. Like I could picture spin anything, but like.

Barbara Burgess: Why, like, you know, I mean, not that you can't market yourself, I mean, you should market yourself, [00:40:00] but let's go to the core of who you are as a human. 'cause I think there are plenty of people out there who would wanna support that. 

Serena Reynolds: I, I'm co I'm completely with you. I think there's so much blur out there.

Serena Reynolds: It's, it's incredible. Now we all hide behind our. Instagram filters and, and you know, our AI words and, and whatever it is that, I think it's so much more important now to, to speak, to, to be heard, seen as real people. 

Barbara Burgess: Yes. And, and you are right more than ever, probably before. And I think that's part of the kind of privilege as a coach is like in reality, the, the, my experience has been the people that looked the most buttoned up look like they had it all handled the perfect pictures.

Barbara Burgess: It's the hottest mess under the hood. And, and as the coach, you get to see behind the scenes, and that proves out to be true. Like when somebody is. Pretty buttoned up and all. Perfect. I get [00:41:00] nervous 'cause I'm like, Ooh, where? Where are we going? What? What are we gonna discover here? Right. You know, not that there can't be stuff, but it's like, I think we do all of those things to make up for something, you know?

Barbara Burgess: I would much rather see a woman's imperfect belly than a toned ab. If it's really her like all day long. Right. And I think that's the opportunity we have now is like, why not make the brands and all the marketing be real and authentic and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, people are jumping on AI because it's gonna make it easier to put fake pitch and spin, not to be real, how is it gonna know who I am?

Barbara Burgess: But I trust Serena to know who I am. I trust Sara to get the attention with it, you know? 

Sara Ferrer: You can count on me, Barbara B I'll be here all day and all night for you, girl. So like, what's, what's next for you? Tell us like what's, you know, don't tell us too much. Give us a little snippet of like what's, what do you think the next [00:42:00] chapter looks like?

Sara Ferrer: The next Yes. He's already said eight, eight. 

Barbara Burgess: I, I do, I think there, you know, there isn't, there's more another book coming, so I'm aware of that. I just, it's like I'm writing a lot. I just don't know exactly what, what's gonna form out of that. But I do think, I don't know the concrete answer, but I feel my business transforming in, in a significant way.

Barbara Burgess: And some of it is, is some productizing, but not in the ways that. We've seen and done, you know, in, in some ways. So what I'm interested in create is kind of creating kind of more empowering experiences that people can, you know, use and consume. That, that it's kind of like the, the example of if I could do the, all the million dollars and that would give the leg up.

Barbara Burgess: Like what are the other things that give a leg up that allow us to be outrageous, to be ourselves to all that kind of stuff. So there's. Some pictures playing. I don't know what form it's gonna [00:43:00] take yet, but I think that's gonna be in the next year, probably a little bit more of what's emerging outta the business.

Barbara Burgess: And, and my theme for this year is I've, I'm willing to be selfish and audacious because it breaks every upbringing rule of mine, like. One should never be those things. So you know, the more I stretch into that, I think some other things may pop up too. 

Serena Reynolds: One of my favorite words at the moment is audacious.

Serena Reynolds: I have to be honest. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. You can feel it almost. Yes. Like raw and vulnerable. 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah. Yeah. The opposite. Well, I'm never, I am never anyone that's been confident. Like people will project confidence on me. 'cause I will do things like if you put, if you said, Hey, we're gonna go have you speak tomorrow in a group of 35,000 people and you can't have an agenda, I'm actually okay.

Barbara Burgess: I'm like, yeah, I'll get scared and then I'll be there and then we'll get through it. It's, it's all right to me. Right? But, but that I don't feel confident. I'll be terrified the whole time I'm doing it. [00:44:00] That's part of the joy of it, right? So I think to that point, like audacious to me means you act anyway.

Barbara Burgess: Right. Oh, I don't know the outcome. I don't know that this is, sure. In fact, it's probably not. Sure. In fact, I'm likely to fail, but I'm gonna do it anyway. And that's the part that I am learning to enjoy. Sounds like keynote speaking 

Serena Reynolds: is like next. 

Barbara Burgess: I I have done some of that and I'm probably ready to be back doing a bit of that.

Barbara Burgess: So yes, from, from your lips to the universe's ears. I like that. 

Sara Ferrer: Barbara, if, if anyone is listening in, they're as in love with you as I am personally. Uh, really I am. Just send me the coordinates. Don't send me your address. Just send me the coordinates. I'll find the, the bucket of chalk. Okay. And I'll write, I will be max.

Sara Ferrer: Amen. I, I'd be delighted to do that. Where do we find you? Where do people look you up? Follow, you get your burst of, of just energy? Where do they find that? 

Barbara Burgess: Yeah, be enough. Dot com is a landing page on my website where [00:45:00] they can learn about the book, order, the book. And I made these kind of little inspirational reminders that I sent to myself that you can sign up for that are just a little weekly touch of love, as it were related to the enough book.

Barbara Burgess: So, and the book's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all that kind of stuff. But once you're there, it links to the rest of the website. So beenough.com. 

Serena Reynolds: Beenough.com. How did you manage to get bf com?

Barbara Burgess: I know I, well, a little miracle. That's when you trust these things are meant to be. It's so funny because I have tried for Barbara burgess.com and it's someone in the UK who has it, and, you know, I keep, I keep knocking on that door every now and then because they're not using it right now.

Barbara Burgess: So, you know, maybe someday it'll be that one too. 

Serena Reynolds: But I, I think being enough is. Is, is actually like a very great domain name. Well, good. 

Barbara Burgess: Then we'll just stick there from 

Barbara Burgess: the experts. You heard it here? 

Sara Ferrer: Yes. Yes. If Serena says it, it will happen. We'll have to do a check-in with you because we, [00:46:00] we are on this journey.

Sara Ferrer: It was so lovely hearing your story. And again, for anyone listening, we're gonna have Barbara's info on our website as well. So check her out and Barbara, when book number two drops, holler at your girl Will ya. 

Barbara Burgess: You betcha. You betcha. And I'm gonna have to road trip and, you know, see both of you at some point in time.

Barbara Burgess: So I'm adding that to my wishlist in the next couple years here. 

Sara Ferrer: Wonderful. Thank you so much for, for being on the podcast today, Barbara, and we'll be chatting soon. Take care.