Ep33 IonaHolloway Youtube
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Sara Ferrer: [00:00:00] Welcome to Fearless and Flawed. Today’s guest is Iona Holloway. She’s a keynote speaker, bestselling author of Ghosts Why Perfect Women Shrink and Founder of Brave Thing, a company dedicated to helping women overcome self-doubt and embrace their inner strength through public speaking, breath work and mentorship programs.

Serena Reynolds: And I’m Serena and I help bold leaders become the go-to expert in their space. And I’m Sarah, an email marketing pro here to convert clicks into cash. Together, Serena and I are two women in charge, digging into the fearless, the flawed, and the fabulous journeys of female founders rewriting the rules everywhere.

Serena Reynolds: So let’s dive in. Welcome to the show. Iona.

Iona Holloway: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. This is my first podcast as a new mom, so maybe I’ll be a completely different person than I have been in every [00:01:00] other podcast I’ve ever done.

Serena Reynolds: Every day we’re a different person to what we were. Oh yeah. Yep. So what inspired you to start Brave Think, and how did your own healing journey shaped this mission?

Iona Holloway: Yeah, sure. So at Brave Thing, there’s two things that I share with. All my clients are whenever I’m on stage. And the first is we want to become the person and live the life that makes 5-year-old you happy and 95-year-old you proud. And the other one is that someone in your life needs a braver version of you to exist.

Iona Holloway: And that is the reason why breathing exists, and that is. My, my story, um, so long story, very short. I was one of those very highly functioning and visibly struggling young girls that grew up into a very highly functioning and invisibly struggling woman. So straight as playing field hockey for Scotland.

Iona Holloway: Got a scholarship to the [00:02:00] US to play here in the college system and had a great career. First job out of college was at Google, like all tick, tick, tick, gly, gly, glittter looks great on paper. But behind that, I really struggled with eating disorders and what would be diagnosed as depression, although I chose to not go that.

Iona Holloway: Go that route of. Medically classifying it. Um, but I struggled in that way for, you know, the best part of 20 plus years. And it was a phone call from my brother around my 29th birthday and he said, Iona, you’re going to be an aunt to a little girl. And that was my sliding door moment. And it was that day where.

Iona Holloway: I just knew I didn’t want her to know this version of me and that someone in my life needed a braver version of me to exist. Um, so that’s at the, that’s at the heart of why Brave Thing exists and now I support people through, I. The inner work of becoming the bravest version of yourself, and then also the external [00:03:00] of that through public speaking, which has become a big part of how I talk about brave thing and share my work.

Iona Holloway: And I’ve really enjoyed helping other people tell the story and give the talk that only they can give. And that’s what makes it a brief one. So that’s, that’s brief thing. And, and that’s me.

Serena Reynolds: Well, as a marketer, I have to say I really love the language that you use. A braver version of yourself. Somebody that you, you want, sorry, what was that when you were five?

Serena Reynolds: It was, let’s re, let’s recap.

Iona Holloway: Yeah. Yeah. So I have the the five and 95 rule. So if in this moment you can’t be brave for yourself, focus on living a life that makes five yearold you happy and 95 year olds you proud. ’cause most of us, at some point we disconnect from the likeness and the freeness and the playfulness of who we were, the dreams of who we were when we were young.

Iona Holloway: And then there’s that sort of looming. Am I going to live a meaningful life? Am I going to leave a legacy? Are [00:04:00] people going to remember who I am? Is there something that I’m going to regret not doing? If I were to reach the, the end of my life, and for me, a big one was writing a book. It was something that was, I talked about it a lot when I was like, young girl, completely ghosted it when I was ghosting out, struggling.

Iona Holloway: And then it was something that I was able to reclaim and do sort of in reference to. Wanting to do that for the older version of me. So I like to think of them as our two most important stakeholders in our life, and especially if we’re someone who maybe we feel the pressure of other people’s expectations.

Iona Holloway: I mean, who doesn’t in society, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. It brings you right back to.

Serena Reynolds: I I love that the fact that you’ve brought it back in and it’s you that you are trying to impress. It’s 5-year-old you and 95-year-old you that is so, it’s such such a beautiful holistic kind of view on, on how we should try [00:05:00] and approach our own lives.

Serena Reynolds: I, I think it’s magical. So thank you for sharing.

Sara Ferrer: I agree with Serena. It sounds, when you speak, it’s like I want them, right? I want that five-year-old Sarah to be proud. I get it, like you laid it out for me, but naturally you’ve created, you know, your brand around helping women who want that, but are at a point where it’s either unattainable or, or they’re halfway there or they just can’t see the, the vision.

Sara Ferrer: So. What do you find, and perhaps this ties into your own experience, you know, it’s on paper, it sounds so great, but what do you find whether within yourself, with the, the clients that come to you or the prospective clients, where is the struggle? Where is the, you know, is it 5-year-old? Me doesn’t deserve to be happy.

Sara Ferrer: Is it 95-year-old? Me doesn’t think she’s gonna ever be wise, is that I’m just freaking struggling day to day trying to figure out what’s for dinner. So what’s. Kind of the high [00:06:00] level obstacles to that vision that you’re encountering?

Iona Holloway: Yeah, so I would say that true for me and true for a lot of the women, and I shouldn’t, I mean, it’s been predominantly women, but I work with a lot of men now as well.

Iona Holloway: And something I heard a while ago, which really resonated with me was that pressure can feel a lot like deflation. When you are a strong person and a smart person, we have expectations for ourselves and a wee bit of pressure is great and I respond really well to it. I’m not one of these people that’s like, remove all pressure, remove all expectation, just be who you are.

Iona Holloway: ’cause that’s not true to this kind of people that I work with. But. I was someone that was crushed under the weight of my own expectation and pressure, and pressure felt a lot like deflation. So it always just felt like I was failing and like, I’ll just be very honest. This is something where, like right now, [00:07:00] for example, in this new version of me, my daughter’s 12 weeks old, 13 weeks, and I’m counting tomorrow.

Iona Holloway: I’ve had to revisit a lot of the things that I talk and teach about. About because a lot of things that I had mastered and were feeling easy under the weight and pressure of this new version of me, I felt a lot like I’m failing recently. And that’s something where. I, I kinda get annoyed or frustrated with self-help or personal development.

Iona Holloway: This idea that we reach this brave version of ourself and we’ve suddenly arrived or we’re healed, or we’re happy, or whatever it is. The reality is that every single day you are in a conversation with yourself, and you can either choose to get underneath yourself and support yourself, or you can be the one that is.

Iona Holloway: Stepping, like standing on your own back or yelling at yourself. And an example I like, so I, my background’s in sports, so this one really resonates with me. [00:08:00] But I was hearing this boxer who was on a losing streak, he’d been losing like match after match after match, and he was losing again. And the bell went for the, the end, the end of the round, and it’s his coach turned to him and said, I need you to stop listening to yourself and start talking to yourself.

Iona Holloway: So everything that rises up from within you, I can’t, I’m not good enough. I am failing. I’m not where, I’m not as far along as I should be or as my peers are. I’m disappointing people. All of that. I need you to stop listening to that and acting like it’s truth, and I need you to start talking to yourself.

Iona Holloway: And that comes in with like that 95-year-old version of you. It’s like, I need you to be. That braver version and you need to speak to yourself in that way. And that’s a daily practice. So I don’t know if that’s a short or a long way of saying like, I. Really believe that we can all be a braver version [00:09:00] of ourselves, and we can all live brave lives.

Iona Holloway: It doesn’t have to look spectacular. It doesn’t have to look flashy or wild, although it can if you want to. But it’s like every day, how am I speaking to myself? How am I supporting myself? Am I being my own cheerleader and advocate and friend, or am I not? And the brave thing is to be that version of ourselves that supports ourselves and.

Iona Holloway: It wasn’t something that I learned until, until I learned it.

Serena Reynolds (2): Definitely didn’t learn it in school. So, on on, on Fearless and Flawed, we obviously, we, we talked to a lot of entrepreneurial women, so. I think it’s fair to say that the majority of us are relatively high functioning in one way or another. You know, we’re so driven, focused, you know, we all have lives outside of what we do, and, and yeah, I, I think what, what you said really resonated.

Serena Reynolds (2): I mean, you said that, you know, you got on a scholarship from, [00:10:00] um, to, to America to play hockey, to play sports at. In, in college. And then you, you landed a job in Google on paper. You had, you had like this dream kind of set up. This is what, what kids, well, high functioning girls dream of doing as they get older.

Serena Reynolds (2): And so, so do you think it’s the pressure that you put on yourself that kind of was, was anybody else putting pressure on you or was it just you?

Iona Holloway: No. They really weren’t. And I think, and I like to make that very clear because I also think that now it’s very trendy to blame our parents for everything. And of course, like no one gets the love that they need.

Iona Holloway: No one is raised in a perfect environment and that’s why we need ourselves. But, but, and I know that there are parents who apply a lot of pressure to, to their children.

Serena Reynolds: I’m not so sure they suffer quite in the same way as when you put pressure on yourself because Exactly. You can’t escape from yourself.[00:11:00]

Serena Reynolds: You can’t fight back.

Iona Holloway: Right, right. Yeah. I kind of think about it like you kind of become your own open air prison. It’s like I am stuck here struggling feeling like I am bad or not good enough, or that I’ve done something wrong and I actually could leave at any point because. I am creating this situation for myself, and I say that, and it’s not that we’re all in dire situations, like, yeah, when I was 29, I was on the floor of my life.

Iona Holloway: I did not like myself. I often tell people I’m amazed. I made it into my thirties. I was really low. Like it was a rock bottom and sometimes a rock bottom can really be the making of you. And I’m not gonna be like, oh my God, I, I love my rock bottom. But I, I kind of do. But every day, like, you don’t need to be at a rock bottom to be, to realize that actually living in an open air prison right now, or I’m making this really hard for myself.

Serena Reynolds: [00:12:00] You needed to get there first, didn’t you? Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn’t be where you were today without it.

Iona Holloway: No way. No way. Yeah, I call it the beige wastelands. Like we’re all, we’re all kind of stuck in our own version of that. And for some people it’s really pitch black and at points in your life it’s really pitch black.

Iona Holloway: And for a lot of people it’s like, life is a shrug, it’s just whatever. Um, and I just don’t think that’s, that’s good enough because the way I like to think about it is. Karma’s a bitch, so she’ll reincarnate you as a slug. This is the only life that you know that you have guaranteed. And beige is not a good color for your life.

Iona Holloway: It’s fairly good enough for a wall, but definitely not, definitely not your life.

Sara Ferrer: People get that, like when clients come to you or like perspective, you know, women, men, whoever. They see you. You’re a keynote speaker, you have a this, this great book out. Like. How do we get there? Like, like it all sounds great, but like, okay, I come to you.[00:13:00]

Sara Ferrer: I’m like, I believe in what you’re saying. Just gimme high level. How, what’s the first step? Is it a little bit of, like, I say this with quotes, you know, therapy, is it a little bit more of like, hey, let’s, let’s do a little bit of it. I know you’re not a life coach, I know it’s not self-development angle, but is it a little touch of that?

Sara Ferrer: Like how, how does

Iona Holloway: Oh, absolutely. Yep. Yeah. No, I would, I like to call it inner work, just like doing the work of being of, of when you close your eyes, like what’s going on inside. So there’s. Five steps that I love to teach everyone. The first is put your head in the fridge so we have our mind, which is loud.

Iona Holloway: We are often disconnected from our body. That is why breath work and visualization is. Kind of a part of what I do. So the first step is put your head in the fridge and recognize that the stories you’re telling yourself and the things that you are believing about yourself, they can write the story of your life or you can choose to change them.

Iona Holloway: So we have to put the head in the fridge. [00:14:00] The next is rip the caution tape off your life. So we can get very tight and in control of the life that we’ve lived up until this point. And it looks good and it all looks good on paper or this relationship that I’m in, or I’m scared to do this thing or take this risk.

Iona Holloway: We need to rip the caution tape off your life. So that’s another step letting your heart be known, and this is where I do love. Things like inner child work and practicing compassion for yourself, letting your heart be known to yourself first is something that a lot of strong women just really have got no idea how to, how to do.

Iona Holloway: So that’s a part of it. Let your heart be known to yourself so it can be known to other people. Don’t leave yourself on the floor. So the idea that. When we are trying something new or when we’re struggling, we can leave ourselves on the floor and just kind of walk away and just leave ourselves struggling there.

Iona Holloway: And you’re just not allowed to do that. Like [00:15:00] as someone who wants to live a brave life, you cannot leave yourself on the floor. You have to find a way to get yourself up and and stand up. And then the last is speaking words that breathe life. And that’s what I was saying earlier about. The way that the boxer was speaking to himself, it’s like speaking words that breathe life into yourself.

Iona Holloway: And then, and this I love to do is speaking words that breathe life into. What you want to become and what you want to do. So on any given day, I’m believing that I can speak words that breathe life into more of my speaking career, more of my keynotes being booked on stages and more of people finding me and.

Iona Holloway: Wanting to work with me to help them write the talk that only they can give. So being willing to speak about those things out loud. So speaking words at Breathe Life is both how we speak to ourselves, but also how we kinda speak our brave life out into the world. And this is the, these kind of five steps are rinse, [00:16:00] repeat, like, put your head in the fridge, rip the caution tape off, let your heart be known.

Iona Holloway: Don’t leave yourself on the floor. Speak words that breathe life. And I teach those. In my program, we practice those in our life, and if you do that over and over and over again, you cannot fail to live a brave life. It’s just not, it’s not possible. Like if you’re doing those things consistently, not perfectly, but if you’re doing them consistently and trying to be open to them, your brief life catches up to you.

Iona Holloway: And I’ve seen it happen hundreds of times at this point with clients.

Serena Reynolds: It is partly your accent. It’s partly the words that you’re saying. It feels like a hug my head and my heart. You know, it’s a very warming sensation and I think that, um, yeah, I, I mean, you, you’ve really nailed down what you’re saying and I think that’s really evident and comes across.

Iona Holloway: Yeah. Yeah. It’s something that I’ve. I think [00:17:00] anyone that runs a business or starts a business, you start out with ideas and you look around in the world and you see what other people are doing and all that kind of thing, and then you really have to focus on. What you like to do, but also the way that you like to speak about your work and you create that kind of signature language or sticky concepts that become oh, that’s brave thing, or that’s Iona.

Iona Holloway: Um, and I think it can, just like speaking as a business owner can take like patience to find the language that you love to use and that becomes your own. But also like to think that when you find it, it really trademarks you. Because like when I go on stage, everyone in that room learns the five and 95 rule and they haven’t heard it somewhere before.

Iona Holloway: And they walk away with, okay, two stakeholders, boom, boom, I’ve got them. And then five steps put my head in the fridge, like sticky [00:18:00] ideas like that. Um, and that’s something that as a like creative person, I’ve really enjoyed. That part of brave thing is creating this language around, around bravery, and it’s something that I actually really enjoy now helping people do when they’re writing their talks.

Iona Holloway: Um, in star Power, it’s like, what is, what is the language that you are using to describe your work? How are you making it yours? There’s nothing new under the sun, like the idea of self-compassion or being nice to yourself. Or speaking to yourself kindly. These are not radical concepts, but I do believe that sometime the medium is the message and sometimes you need to hear it from someone, someone specific.

Iona Holloway: Um, and I’ve been told that many times, and I’m sure it’s why people work with you as well. It’s like, I’ve heard this idea or this concept. Many times, but I had to hear it from a no bullshit Scottish person to believe that it was something that was [00:19:00] relevant for, for me. And it’ll be relevant for some people.

Iona Holloway: And some people will be like, I don’t like Iona. And she like, she’s like, zip it. And that’s, that’s part of it too.

Sara Ferrer: There is a process or there’s, um, I don’t wanna say if it’s a service or a part of the system where, uh, of your kind of rinse and repeat system where, hey, we’re gonna write, there’s gonna be a writing activity.

Sara Ferrer: Did I catch this right or am I totally making this up where people write about?

Iona Holloway: Oh, so this is part of Star Power. So just, I’ll give some context. So Star Power is my, my speaking program. It’s a five week speaking intensive where in five weeks you write a talk and then you deliver it a live showcase. So you write the talk and then we learn all of the public speaking skills to be able to actually speak it.

Iona Holloway: ’cause writing and speaking are. Related. They’re cousins, but they’re separate. They’re separate skills. And then you deliver the showcase, um, or you deliver your talk at the live [00:20:00] showcase. And there’s a huge component of writing because writing is how you discover. What is the talk that only I can give?

Iona Holloway: Like what is the talk that I, what is it that I want to speak about? What is it that I want to share with the world? And there’s an important part of that process, which is when we’re story mining. So we’re looking into stories and, and finding stories from your life that could ultimately become a part of the talk that you give.

Iona Holloway: And. I’m very big on this. Talks aren’t therapy. So when you stand up and give a talk that represents you or your business or your brand, you cannot be bleeding out on stage sharing stories about yourself that you haven’t already processed. Um, so there’s a part of the writing process or the finding of stories in star power where you’re like, this was an important story in my life, or this is an important part of my life.

Iona Holloway: Am I ready to share it? Does it make sense for me to to [00:21:00] share it? And not all stories need to be told, and some stories really, really do. And so that’s another part about like public speaking, which I love is in relation to being brave because you really have to get clear on who you are, what you want to share with the world.

Iona Holloway: The world isn’t owed your vulnerability. So you don’t have to give it all away. That’s not required in order for you to make a connection with people, but it’s choosing what you want to push to the front and share as part of yourself, whether you’re giving a talk just for you or it is related to your, to your business.

Iona Holloway: So yeah, it’s just one of those ways of digging into who you are and then we, we refine it from there.

Sara Ferrer: I love that. And that’s five weeks you said.

Iona Holloway: Yeah. Yeah. I love the five week formats. I’ve just been, actually this week we just wrapped a cohort of star power at the end of May and I was reading the feedback and just like universally, people [00:22:00] were saying five weeks was a scary amount of time to write a talk.

Iona Holloway: ’cause it feels really short. But it’s intentionally that way because like I was talking about earlier. Pressure can feel a lot like deflation, but pressure can also create diamonds when you’re supported in a context and around people, and hopefully with me as, as the person that’s helping you to really feel like, of course I can, like I can, I can do this.

Iona Holloway: So it’s a five week speaking intensive and then. The other part is that there is a showcase at the end. Currently it’s online, so I host a two hour showcase online where everyone who’s in the program stands up and gives their talk. And as part of the program a brave thing, you have to invite people every single week to come and watch you.

Iona Holloway: So we ended up with 250 people at this, at this showcase, which was amazing. And this is, this is the thing too I [00:23:00] love about like what. Could you find a braver thing to do?

Serena Reynolds: I, I’m doing a podcast that it’s more than brave enough for me.

Iona Holloway: Right, right. And it’s one of those things, not everyone wants to give a talk, but there’s a lot of people out in the world who are like, I think I have, I.

Iona Holloway: Something to share, or I would love to speak about my business or my brand, or I would love to meet the version of myself who goes through that process because it can fail to make you braver. Um, and that’s what I, I really enjoy that from that there’s that internal transformation. We’re not sitting in the course, and I have courses like this and I love them, but we’re not, let’s do in our child work today or let’s work on.

Iona Holloway: Let’s work on loving ourselves more, or let’s work on having a good attitude. It’s like we’re not sitting down and focusing on those things, but the process of writing a talk forces you to [00:24:00] confront everything. Like it brings up so much, it brings up fear, it brings up vulnerability, it brings up strength, it brings up creativity, and through the process of doing something brave, you can’t fail to become a braver version of, of yourself.

Iona Holloway: So. That showcase at the end really puts you on the hook, which I like. So is this, is this online or live? It’s online right now, but I plan to, at the moment, especially as a, a new mom, it’s kind of hard to do these things in person right now, just with my schedule. But my goal for Star Power is to have an in-person version of it in the future.

Iona Holloway: ’cause I think that would be amazing.

Sara Ferrer: So this brings up a great topic that Serena and I. Have talked about together, we’ve talked about other women entrepreneurs, is this idea, and I’m really curious how you kind of work through this, um, this idea of doing it all Right. Especially with motherhood [00:25:00] career.

Sara Ferrer: And I, I will tell you, I have really my, I have always believed that women can do it all and women should do it all. And I have to tell you, I’m changing. I don’t necessarily think because we can, we should. I, I think, you know, the more I see it, the more I’m like, you know what, why, why do I have to be everything to everyone at every time to prove what, when I’m exhausted and burnt out.

Sara Ferrer: So I find this, this conversation, it’s it, and again, that can take many angles because naturally, if you’re not hearing it, kind of with the right funnel, you might hear that is like, you might hear that as like, women shouldn’t, or women can’t. But I wonder how much, you know, in your, in your journey, both personally and professionally.

Sara Ferrer: I have to imagine that having it all or doing it all, or being it all,

Serena Reynolds: isn’t this part, part and parcel of being a high achieving, high focused woman. I, I mean, I find it incredibly hard [00:26:00] to, to, I, I wouldn’t say delegate, but to burden somebody else.

Sara Ferrer: Yeah. Yeah. Right, because you’re so high achieving that. I can do that in motherhood, in career, in partnership, in friendship.

Sara Ferrer: So like where, where when someone comes to you and says, but I need to do it all, or I feel satisfied when I do it all because if I don’t do it all, then I feel lazy. How n mean that’s a loaded que, how do we navigate that very complicated web of societal norms, family pressure, like. Where, where do you start with that baby girl?

Sara Ferrer: Do you just say, Hey, my five week course, we’ll figure it out. Like, what do,

Iona Holloway: do you know what? I feel like it’s more honest to just talk about how I’m dealing this with this, with myself right now. As someone who is in, who is at like week 12, about to answer week 13, it’s been the hardest thing I’ve ever done, or the hardest thing I’ve ever done was healing.[00:27:00]

Iona Holloway: Um, but second. To that is becoming a mom and figuring out how to run my business, which I love, and be a mother who is present and able to give someone my full attention or give her my full attention has been the hardest thing that I’ve ever done. And I know this because I have a clear enough insight into myself to know that it people don’t come much stronger than me.

Iona Holloway: In terms of like strong women, I am up there. And that’s not being, that’s not me being arrogant, that’s me having a clear, clear sight of myself. And so I recognize that if I’m finding it that hard, I can only assume that I. There are a million, millions of women walking around in the world with having the exact same experience.

Iona Holloway: So when you said earlier, I don’t really believe that we can have it all. I absolutely agree with you, and I don’t think that [00:28:00] makes me, well, I don’t even wanna talk about being a feminist ’cause I just like, don’t I get bored by those conversations, but I, no, we can’t have it all and. Actually the idea that we can is not empowerment.

Iona Holloway: It’s cruel. It’s not. It’s not. You can do it, it’s you have to do it or you should do it, or you’re not an evolved woman of the 21st century if you don’t want to do it all. And again, that comes back to applying what I teach in real time to myself in a different context. Now, as a mom, I wasn’t a mom this time last year, so I didn’t have this insight.

Iona Holloway: What better time to use five and 95 than right? Now for myself because through societal expectation or perhaps even what a strong woman should be doing, or what an ambitious woman should be doing, I should be focusing on X, Y, and Z, or I absolutely should be. I. [00:29:00] Putting Len in daycare and I don’t want to do that.

Iona Holloway: I want to have her here at home. And that’s a choice that me and my husband made and I like. That’s a choice that I made for me. Is it the right choice? No. ’cause I can’t make that decision for someone else, but I know for me it’s the choice that I wanted to, wanted to make. Something that I have been trying to do recently, and by recently, I mean this week.

Iona Holloway: Is recognizing that my energy is different now I have less capacity. So time is not a, a use, I don’t think a useful measure for doing anything. ’cause you can have time. But if you don’t have energy, then you know. Time is not actually something that you can use. So I recognize, and this is not me advocating for my limitations, this is me being incredibly honest.

Iona Holloway: I have less energy than I used to. I have [00:30:00] less time. Um, I’m more tired than I used to be, and I also recognize that I can still do a really incredible job at pretty much everything. Tired if I’m able to see myself with kindness. So something I’ve been focusing on this week is, you know, that whole term, like minimum viable product, they do it for like when they’re launching a new thing, it’s like we get the minimum viable product.

Iona Holloway: Well, I heard a term related to that a couple years ago and I can’t remember where I heard it. But instead of minimum viable, which does not work for someone like me, the idea of minimum viable, just like all of my. Perfectionist, like really wanting things to be beautiful and creative and personal and all that kinda stuff doesn’t work, but I go for minimum lovable these days.

Iona Holloway: So minimum lovable is still like an incredible job. You’re doing a really good job. Um, you’re giving it what you’ve got and it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a high quality thing, [00:31:00] like star power is a really good example of that. I just, I ran that course when I was, what, seven weeks postpartum. It was minimum lovable in that it didn’t do everything, but I just focused on what’s going to make this.

Iona Holloway: Lovable for myself and also for everyone in the program. And it turned out that minimum lovable was more than enough to blow everyone’s socks off, get what they wanted outta it. And also, I, I had a good time. Um, but this is something that I. Struggle is not a word that I, well do you know what? It’s, it’s probably accurate.

Iona Holloway: It’s this whole kind of, how can I do it all? How can I balance it all? I don’t have an answer to that because there isn’t one That’s a very personal thing. Um, but being able to have the tools to know yourself and see yourself clearly, and those are all things that I do. Teach obviously. Um, I think that puts you in as good a position [00:32:00] as you possibly can to do right by yourself.

Iona Holloway: But if anyone said it was easy, they were lying, and if anyone said that you can do it all the year. Also, they’re also liars.

Serena Reynolds: I, my daughter is 18, she’s. Getting ready to go off to university, college, whatever you want to call it, and I must have been the most ridiculous mother on the planet. I worked full-time, I looked after her at home.

Serena Reynolds: I was running my business. I remember she was four weeks old. I’m rocking her with my foot whilst I’m on a client call. I, I wasn’t given my full attention to work or my child. I, I did it. I did it all the way through. All the way through. And I have to say, I’m not gonna say I regret it because I absolutely loved spending that the time that I did have with my child, with, with her, loved it.

Serena Reynolds: Um, [00:33:00] and I’m glad that I didn’t, she didn’t go somewhere else and, and stuff. I should have just given myself a break. I should have just gone, Serena, do you know what? It’s okay not to be perfect today. It’s okay to give myself a break, and when I look back, that’s one thing I would’ve addressed about myself and who I am.

Serena Reynolds: I mean, I’m, I’m definitely high functioning. I, I never stop. I don’t sleep. I just power through everything. I’m a bit of a nightmare. Um. Yeah, but that was, that was the one thing was I wish I’d have just taken a pause and just breathed in something else other than, than the chaos that I allow my life to be.

Serena Reynolds: Sometimes when you see you, you regret it.

Iona Holloway: What? What is it that you regret? Do you feel like there’s something, are you paying for it now in a different [00:34:00] way, or is it that. I’m just curious.

Serena Reynolds: I, I think more than anything else, I regret giving my energy to things that weren’t so important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More than anything else.

Serena Reynolds: It’s not really a regret. I mean, my, I, I have a wonderful relationship with my daughter. I’ve enjoyed seeing her grow up. She’s the most amazing young woman and, and, and, and I know that I’m very much part of that, and she takes off me so much and, and it’s so lovely to see, see her and, and experience her as, as a woman.

Serena Reynolds: Now, it’s not, it’s not a regret. It’s more of a. I, I didn’t know how to, how to, um, give my energy to the right things. I, I, I, I thought I had to take it all on there. I, I mean, I’m married. I had another son, you know, um, older child, um, and stuff, so it [00:35:00] wasn’t, yeah, it was just, I just wish I’d just taken a pause, just, just.

Serena Reynolds: Enjoyed it for, for a little bit longer as opposed to trying so hard to, to not let people down, to, to take it all on. I didn’t want to put anybody else under pressure and, and all of these things, and realistically, I don’t think I would’ve done if I, if I had have taken that course. Now, with hindsight,

Iona Holloway: yeah, I dunno about you, but something that, I think this goes back to the identity of being someone who I.

Iona Holloway: It’s like, yeah, I am a strong person or yeah, I am high functioning. There’s almost this. Just let me show you how strong and high functioning I am. Like I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do it better and I’m gonna do it quietly too. Like you’re not going to know that this is hard for me ’cause I’m gonna keep my mouth shut, but I’m also going to, that’s something that I’ve had to work through with myself because there can be [00:36:00] this kind of like, I’m just taking this on and it’s, there’s a bit of maybe bravado going on there, but then.

Iona Holloway: If there’s one thing you can’t afford in life, it’s resentment. And I think when you put that expectation on yourself, and even if you are work and you’re able to hold it, but you’re working very hard, it’s very hard for that not to, what’s the word? It’s like stir the pot or po poison the well a little bit into

Serena Reynolds: this is the most ridiculous thing and I, I really hope that it’s only women and, and that can appreciate this story right at.

Serena Reynolds: At four weeks old when my daughter was, my, my daughter was three weeks old, and, um, she got admitted into hospital with suspected meningitis, like a real, like moment of, oh my god. Um, so I was staying in the hospital with her and um, I’d had a C-section and I’d got internal bleeding. So I was [00:37:00] admitted to the same hospital my daughter was in, and, um, because I was with her, I had doctors coming up to her ward to treat me.

Serena Reynolds: Um, this was, this was the, the Sunday, um, the following Monday, not so a week in hospital. She was, she was so much better. We, we got released. I, I was released. And cesarean, so I’m not supposed to even pick up a kettle. You know I’m supposed to be, yeah. The Monday I got on a train and went to work and I carried her pram up the stairs and I went to work and I.

Serena Reynolds: I, I have to admit that was, that always plays back in my head as if, to say, what the hell was I doing? Really, honestly, truly, that was the most ridiculous, risky, high functioning, ridiculous thing I could have done ever. I mean, it was, [00:38:00] it was extreme. So, yeah, that, that’s the most ridiculous thing I think I’ve ever done.

Serena Reynolds: Um, and if I was to ever reflect back that was, that would’ve been a moment where I didn’t do that.

Iona Holloway: Sure.

Iona Holloway: Yeah.

Iona Holloway: And then also, like in that moment, so yeah, this is what I do. This is what, this is what someone like Sarena does. ’cause that’s. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, this is the, this is the reality of the situation.

Iona Holloway: And when you’re so used to seeing yourself in that way, it’s like doing something that looks objectively ridiculous, perhaps to anyone else who’s looking in from the outside on your life. But for you, it’s like, yeah, this is what I do. This is, this is how you, and that’s the, that’s that pressure, that’s that self image.

Iona Holloway: That’s the way that we see ourself. I mean,

Serena Reynolds: I don’t let people down. I, I don’t do this. It’s, it’s a inbuilt ethos value that I have, that I, that I [00:39:00] respect in other people. And so I feel as though I need to live up to that is, which is, which is stupid. Realistically, that was stupid. I don’t think anybody would’ve said, said, oh, you really let me down here, Serena, if I’d have told him the story.

Iona Holloway: I mean that goes, that goes back to what you were saying earlier about how it’s like pressure of parents is one thing, but when the call is coming from inside the house, I think is the way that they see it. It’s, it’s a whole different kind of thing and you’re with yourself all the time, and that’s where being able to create even a little bit of space between.

Iona Holloway: You, whoever you are, and the story or the narrative that’s existing around you and it’s shaping you and molding you, and pushing you and pulling you, and just really looking at those, looking at those stories and looking at those beliefs and like, [00:40:00] does this have to be, does this have to remain true? And am I, and I think that’s where bravery can come in.

Iona Holloway: For strong women, it’s like, am I brave enough to. Let this melt a little bit, or am I brave enough to drop this ball? Um, or am I brave enough to just say, I’m not doing this anymore, and can I, can I walk through the discomfort? Of that choice rather than living with the discomfort of the choices. I make my default because this is who I am, but the discomfort of if I let this go or if I stop functioning in this way, or I stop forcing myself to do this, who am I?

Iona Holloway: And I think that’s the fear that lives in a lot of us is, oh, am I gonna become a puddle? Am I gonna become one of those weak women that needs help? Um, am I gonna be one of those martyrs? Like it’s one of those things that I. Will put my hand up and say, I’ve judged other women for when I see them. Just like very much being like, look [00:41:00] how hard I’m working for you, and really kind of like that kind of thing.

Iona Holloway: And I’m like, just. No one asked you to, but then it’s like, oh, how am I any different than than that? So I think it’s such a, I don’t want to say that men don’t experience it, but I also am fed up with the conversation that men and women are exactly the same and deal with everything in the same way. ’cause we’re not, and to say that we are is ridiculous.

Iona Holloway: Um, I think there’s like a distinctly distinct experience of being a woman who is a mother who also works.

Sara Ferrer: I think you just hit on so many, there’s so many different pockets here, right? It’s the emotions, it’s the societal expectations, it’s the, the inner work, as you say. Like there’s so much there that I think which adds value again, to your role and your position here, which is this is not just a one dimensional thing.

Sara Ferrer: This is a lot of layers here that you have created these systems and these processes to really address and. [00:42:00] Part of that addressing part of that system is discomfort. So in the spirit of discomfort, I am going to ask you what we do on fearless and flawed. We ask our guests a surprise question. Um, as a high achieving, high functioning woman, this is probably the least uncomfortable thing that’s ever happened in your life.

Sara Ferrer: Um, but uh, we like to ask a surprise question from our last guest. Okay. And our last guest was, uh, Sarika, who was a sake expert, which is very crucial to know. Speak going into the question. The question is, my dear, have you tried sake? Sake? And did you like it? Something simple, little low ball, no curve ball.

Iona Holloway: I’ve tried it. I’ve tried it once. I think I had it a sushi restaurant one time and I don’t really remember anything about it. Apart from that, I didn’t love it, but also. It’s now been a very [00:43:00] long time since I, since I had any alcohol. I mean, I gave up alcohol when I was trying to get pregnant and luckily we got pregnant quickly, but it’s been, whatever it is, been 15 months maybe now since I had an alcoholic drink.

Iona Holloway: And, um, I right now in my sort of position as a glorified cow, ’cause I think I have never felt more emotional connection to cows than I do right now. Um. But. And do you know, it’s funny, I’ve never been a big drinker. I think part of it was, part of it was being an athlete and

Serena Reynolds: you’ve let down your whole nation.

Iona Holloway: I’ve right. I’ve let down the whole nation and I’ve let down all the, all the boring men who try to speak to me in bars when they hear my, not that I’m hanging out in bars anymore, but when I. Used to, oh, you love whiskey. And I would just look at them and be like, you, basic, basic man. And then, then, and then when they realized that they completely missed the boat on that one, then they would bring [00:44:00] up Braveheart or William Wallace and I’d be like, you’re pathetic.

Iona Holloway: Like I’m going to the toilet. But never been a big drinker. But I’ll tell you, when I was pregnant, I just wanted to drink a gin and tonic. So. So badly I was dead. Like I was just death, right for chance, to ask for a Gin and Tonic, but I haven’t quite, I honestly don’t have the brain power to figure out, even when it’s cool to have a drink when you’re breastfeeding.

Iona Holloway: So I’ve just not bothered, but the day will come and when it does, it will be glorious.

Sara Ferrer: That, that question with, with the response. I mean, again, we, we always take the question, we don’t know who the next guest is gonna be, but I think there’s a little bit of, you know, dark humor here asking a mother who’s just trying to probably, you know, she’s tired, she’s trying to stay afloat.

Sara Ferrer: It’s like, do you like sake

Iona Holloway: I’m currently, dehydrated,

Serena Reynolds: but three cuts, three Sarika did point out. There was non-alcoholic sake as well as ones that you drink hot, like

Sara Ferrer: The experts. [00:45:00] Stays collecting a paycheck because she’s like, you don’t like alcohol? I got a non-alcohol version for you. So I have to give her, I didn’t even know that.

Sara Ferrer: Yeah, I didn’t know that. You like

Serena Reynolds: warm wine can cover you. You like cold wine can cover you.

Sara Ferrer: You knew. But let me ask, so, so now I’m gonna put you in the hot seat for the next test. You have no idea who they are. What question do you wanna ask? And it can be anything. It doesn’t have to be related to career.

Sara Ferrer: It doesn’t have to be related. Anything we’ve talked about. It can be, do you like vanilla or chocolate ice cream? I mean, it could be as basic. Do you like whiskey?

Iona Holloway: Okay. No, I have one. ’cause I was saying earlier about how, I like to joke that if you don’t live a brave life this time around, like karma’s a bitch and she’ll reincarnate you as a slug, and then you’re really like, you’re really lost.

Iona Holloway: If you, if you were, if reincarnation was real and you couldn’t come back as a human, what would you come back as?

Sara Ferrer: Snap it up for that question. ’cause that’s real, like it’s ease in the sense that it’s like, just choose an animal. [00:46:00] In theory, in theory. And there, but you’re gonna, I, I Serena, with our luck, our next guest is gonna be five and a half hours long.

Sara Ferrer: They’re gonna be, you know, do they wanna be the fish a butterfly? Are they a sea person? Are they a sun person? Who do they wanna be? What does that represent? I’m, I’m thinking what would I, what would I want to be? Well, unless you’re the next guest, we gotta, we gotta keep, because when the next test does it, that’s because this is what Serena and I do.

Sara Ferrer: We ask the question, then we get so into the question, which is a great question. We’ll talk about that for the next guest. ’cause I’m already thinking, is it ladybug for me? Or is it, um, is it armadillo? I don’t know. For some reason I just feel like I need a hard shell. Don’t be kicking me armadillo. I, I would not have seen you as an armadillo neither.

Sara Ferrer: But I also kind of feel like I need protection. ’cause I’m living out in the wild. I don’t have a house there. So I need to either fly high or have a hard shell. That’s my, that’s my thought process. But again, I’m not the next guest.

Serena Reynolds: Uh, but, but so, so do so you get to choose. So if you got to [00:47:00] choose, I mean, I’m intrigued.

Serena Reynolds: I, I dunno what I’d choose a sloth. I just,

Iona Holloway: I know because I also think, I think the question is a good, well, I’m now complimenting myself, but it’s like, will someone respond as. See themselves in like a very highway, or will they see themselves as something like something powerful or something odd or something funny, or oh, they might think I’m too arrogant if I say that I’m a black leopard.

Iona Holloway: Just like we shall see,

Sara Ferrer: there’s a whole psychological element to this, what have you on the line, girl, you’ve just, I have to tell you like listening to your story, listening to, again, the way you talk about your business, but even just like. I think that that there’s a thought process there, which, which again, I have to give credit what credit is due.

Sara Ferrer: You’ve worked on yourself, you have done the work, and I think that’s important to mention because. Not just, oh, hey, you have it all. No, no. You’ve worked for wherever it is, and then you’ve continued to work. But it is [00:48:00] evident when talking to you. Serena said it best earlier. It feels safe. It feels like a warm hug.

Sara Ferrer: It feels like someone’s on your team, but challenging you. It has all those elements of like. You know, powerful, but also you can be vulnerable. So when someone’s listening to this and they’re feeling your vibe like we are, how do they find you? Where are you based? What? What, you know, how do they sign up for these programs?

Sara Ferrer: What does that look like? So that people can be a little closer to you.

Iona Holloway: Good thing about being called Iona is that I’m easy to find, although my mom actually just gave me some disappointing news that apparently there’s a new AI voice on trains in Scotland, and she’s called Iona, which. I’m not thrilled about,

Serena Reynolds (2): just, just remember people.

Serena Reynolds (2): She’s I owner, the person, not the trainer. Now, not, not the AI train voice.

Iona Holloway: Um, so yeah, so my website’s brief thing.co and everything’s there actually just did a wee minimum lovable revamp on it this [00:49:00] week. Right now, I’m not doing a lot of the. Deep inner work. So I used to have a program called The Brave One, which I will be bringing back, but right now, recognizing myself and my capacity, I don’t run that right now.

Iona Holloway: So my big focus for this year is star power and helping people write and deliver the talks that. Only you can give and the best place to start is briefing co slash toolkit. So there you will find the warmup. I do. Before I give talks, you will find the framework I use to help you find out what your. What your talk idea is.

Iona Holloway: So both of those are there for free, but what a little mini training on how to book your first speaking gig. So if speaking and telling your story, even if it is, if it’s a personal one, you’re doing it for you or it is for your business, which can still be personal, um, I can help you write [00:50:00] those talks in star power and brief thing.co/toolkit is the best place to start.

Sara Ferrer: I love that. And as our listeners know, we have all your, we will have all your information on fearless and flawed.com, so they do not have to search too hard for you. Um, this has been such a treat. This is a treat. I feel like I just got a mini little power session in the last like 45 minutes to an hour.

Sara Ferrer: I’m like, well, I don’t know what I’m doing next, but I’m gonna be doing cartwheels. Like, fuck y’all. I got my shit together. ’cause I just have with Diana and I’m figuring it out and it’s okay not to have it figured out, but like I just feel flawed.

Serena Reynolds (2): That’s what this is all about. And this is why I reached out to Iona.

Serena Reynolds (2): ’cause when I saw her posts on LinkedIn, I was just like, oh my God, she’s in my head. She’s, she’s in the same space as us. She’s exactly, exactly what we’re what we’re about. About empowering women just [00:51:00] to be themselves and to feel as though that they can take on the world without feeling as though they have to take on the world.

Iona Holloway: Sometimes you really don’t need to get on the train or climb the stairs. Sometimes you can just stay at home.

Serena Reynolds (2): And yeah, you don’t have to be Instagram perfect. You can be flawed, and that’s what makes you interesting.

Sara Ferrer: Iona thank you. You have been lovely and wonderful, and again, it’s just been such a treat to hear your journey and um, again, anyone listening, check her out to become a braver version of yourself.

Sara Ferrer: So thank you so much.

Iona Holloway: Thank you.